Home Forums General Using Ctrlr Alesis Andromeda A6

This topic contains 36 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  kcoul 1 week, 3 days ago.

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  • #42

    AvantMidi
    Member

    [b:334zok6p]Alesis Andromeda A6[/b:334zok6p]
    The big analog/hybrd mothership. This one has a pretty complex structure when it comes to nrpn/sysex control.

    Vyzor is claiming they are making a vsti editor for some years now…wel… <img src=” title=”Wink” />

    If there is any change there will be a ctrlr voor the A6, this will greatly enhance the Andromeda’s potential.
    I know A few members of the CTRLR group have an Andy including myself fortunately.

    I will be available for all testing procedures and will be writing test reports until the completion off the A6 CTRLR project.

    Making an CTRLR for the A6 is a pretty big challenge. It would be tremendous if it would ever become reality!

    Thanks for all the great CTRLR’s! Great work indeed!

    #1006
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    Well i know this is a big beast, anyone has a good midi implementation chart for this ? I need to take a look how this looks. I like SysEx, so that’s nor a problem this is the best kind of midi messages there is, NRPN/RPN are crap whoever came up with them was stoned.

    share some links, posts, blogs, i’ll look into it.

    #1007

    AvantMidi
    Member

    I sent you the:

    A6 Manual
    A6 sysex MIDI implementation chart.

    Seems everything is sysex. Pretty complex though!
    If there is anything I can do, please let me know.
    The Andromeda is standing by for testing and referencing here;)!

    Great news that you are willing to look into it! Top Notch!

    All the best!

    Chris

    #1008

    AvantMidi
    Member

    It would be the ultimate workhorse with an ctrlr editor that would enable assigning the multiple outputs to different patches using the "mix" mode. Looking at the sysex implementation I assume it is a pretty big challenge to make a ctrlr for it. I hope you are willing to take a look at it when you have the time and will to do so!

    Again great work on all the available CTRlR’s. Top notch that you are releasing the AU versions of the CTRLR’s! This way it looks like they will be running bugfree on OSX!:)

    All the best,

    Chris

    #1009
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    Making the ctrlr is not a bit problem, the problem is designing a usable GUI for this much parameters. SysEx is never a problem.

    #1010

    AvantMidi
    Member

    Could you give me the qualification criteria for the "PNG" file so I can start designein the gui please when you have some time! Great news that you are willing to make an "Andy" CTRLR editor! Thanks in advance!

    #1011
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    Each ctrlr consists of two parts

    1) a jucer editor (jucer is a RAD, download it from here http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/downloads.php)
    the important part is a layout for sliders, button, combos, that’s the hard part
    2) once a jucer editor is created a "skin" can be applied, that is images for toggle buttons and sliders, those are created in KnobMan (theese are frames of a slider position stiched together)

    that’s it the jucer layout is the most complicated part, you need to place thos UI elements and name them (the "name" field in components properties NOT the member name), also a short prefix for all parameters should be used, this simplifies the whole process later.

    #1012

    The_Unknown
    Participant

    …Iam waiting for an Andromeda Editor for years, but till now indeed nobody has beaten this beast… <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    #1013
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    didn’t have the time for anything new lately doing some engine work to make this work much better, but it’s on my list i promise to get to it at some point. i’ll try to create some kind of online waiting list with a percentage counter for each ctrlr so you guys know how stuff are proceeding.

    #1014
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    I was looking through the sysex specs for the A6 and i have a question (just one for now). Could someone look at those specs here http://www.alesis.com/andromeda and tell me
    1) what is the Child ID, Parent ID stuff
    2) what’s the Parent Page
    3) beginning at page 18 are the parameters, some of them look like controls for some gui/view stuff in the andromeda menu, like the seq graph_tab switch and others, is there ANY need to add them to a midi editor (i think not, but please correct me if i’m wrong)

    points 1 and 2 are bytes used in sysex messages so i was wondering how to represent the graphicly on the editor.

    also it looks like the A6 reacts to both NRPN and sysex, i was wondering if there is a preference witch type to use.

    #1015

    sempervirent
    Participant

    I just signed up for the forum to add my support for an Andromeda CTRLR. After finding CTRLR I regret selling my Matrix 1000 and TX81Z. They were hard to program so I just let them go. I think programs like this can really open up the "black box" that many synthesizers can be (quite literally!).

    I’ve had an Andromeda since 2005 and it’s great, but also extremely difficult to conceptualize and program. If I could just SEE all of the parameters at once it would be a big help. I almost wish the Andromeda wasn’t so complex, so it wouldn’t need that horrible little screen with the jittery soft knobs to access the more complex modulation options. I could just accept it as a simple but powerful piece of hardware. Instead, I always end up digging into the deeper settings with those tiny little buttons, which is an exercise in frustation.

    I’d be willing to spend a significant amount of time designing the GUI (both aesthetically and conceptually) in order to make this project a reality. I’ve been doing graphic and web interface design for about 10 years. And obviously, I have an A6 so I can help out with any testing that might be needed.

    As someone else already mentioned, Vyzor has been claiming to have an A6 programmer in development for years. I don’t think it’s going to happen.

    atom, look for a PM with a link to my portfolio and some other info.

    #1016
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    Yeah i saw the PM message thanks for the help offer, i’ll take you up on this i’m sure. I need answers to the questions i asked, and i’ll get to the coding part of the process.

    #1017

    sempervirent
    Participant

    [quote:2udl2f89]1) what is the Child ID, Parent ID stuff
    2) what’s the Parent Page[/quote:2udl2f89]

    I can only guess, but I’d suspect that within their implementation, turning a knob sends an audio-affecting command and also sends a message to the CPU that tells it to draw the GUI for a set of parameters related to the knob that was changed. For example, if you turn the filter cutoff knob, the GUI always redraws to show you that value and a lot of related values.

    You can also press the "View" button for some clusters of related elements, which will show the same screen. This lets you peek at a value without turning a knob (and altering a value). For example, each LFO has its own screen, each filter and oscillator have their own screen. The GUI shows a lot of options that aren’t accessible via the front panel).

    If you look at page 34 in the A6 manual…
    [url:2udl2f89]http://www.alesis.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/0/a816dee61d9ad11686c04cf912d15fcd/file/a6_manual.pdf[/url:2udl2f89]

    …you’ll see a photo of what the A6 GUI looks like. It’s a tab interface paradigm like you see on many websites. I’d assume that the Parent is the top row (groups of related parameters), and the Child is the bottom row (the actual param values).

    [quote:2udl2f89]3) beginning at page 18 are the parameters, some of them look like controls for some gui/view stuff in the andromeda menu, like the seq graph_tab switch and others, is there ANY need to add them to a midi editor (i think not, but please correct me if i’m wrong)[/quote:2udl2f89]

    I don’t think so. The tabbed GUI is one of the worst aspects of the A6 and one of the main reasons why a VST interface is so desperately need. The A6 team probably did the best they could, considering that they had to find a way to represent thousands of parameters, but it actually makes the complexity of the synth more impenetrable than it already is.

    [quote:2udl2f89]also it looks like the A6 reacts to both NRPN and sysex, i was wondering if there is a preference witch type to use.[/quote:2udl2f89]

    Not sure how the interface between the hardware and software works. I know that some DAWs (such as Ableton Live) don’t work very well with NRPNs (if at all). And I don’t think most of the knobs on the A6 will output CCs. I actually just tried this in Live; it will record the basics like pitch wheel, mod wheel, volume control, but not things like oscillator volume and filter cutoff.

    Hope this helps.

    #1018
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    the last question nrpn/sysex

    nrpn is a set of 4CC messages put together to create one 14bit message, sysex is non-standard way of sending any amount of any data on the midi wire. NRPN is more likely to be included in any DAW (since it’s pure CC messages). Sysex is always the last on the list, since it’s more complex.

    #1019

    sempervirent
    Participant

    Thanks, between this and some further research I understand the technical aspect of NRPN messages a bit better. I looked around and it seems like virtually every DAW [i:2jxd1132]except[/i:2jxd1132] Ableton Live can handle NRPN data. So I guess that’s the way to go. Too bad I just started using Live! Maybe in the next version they will finally meet the MIDI specs of the 1980s…

    #1020
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    allright i’ll use NRPN, i guess they have all messages covered with them but i can’t be really sure, if someone could double-check if all parameters are covered by NRPN messages.

    and i’ll get to it soon, i just need to finish some stuff in the engine.

    #1021

    sempervirent
    Participant

    Yes, everything except a few esoteric things are covered by NRPN. See page 258 in the PDF manual for a couple of exceptions. I don’t think these exceptions are related to actual sound manipulation.

    #1022

    AvantMidi
    Member

    Great news that the Andromeda A6 is still on the list of "to do" things. I’ve been working with it for some time now and its really great sounding.

    @atom: What can I do for you in order to speed things up?

    Great stuff and great to B back on this terrific forum!

    #1023
    atom
    atom
    Moderator

    Well i’m doing a re-usable multi point envelope editor for all Ctrlrs (that was aimed at the A6), the first thing to do is to create a usable GUI, someone offered some help on that. I’d rather someone more experienced did the UI for that as there are loads of parameters. Once someone kicks off with some UI sketches i’ll start doing some midi work, i’d need to know how to group parameters and stuff.

    I got an email from someone with a very nice portfolio in UI design and other graphic stuff, but i think i lost the email. If that someone is still here i’d be glad to see him/her help.

    Basicly to kick things off, we need a JUCER component mock-up of how the editor will be organized.

    #1024

    sempervirent
    Participant

    I think that was me. Not sure if I can subscribe to threads on this forum, but I just thought I’d check back – just in time, apparently.

    I can get started on UI stuff, but I’ve never used JUCE before. How to begin?

    Atom, I’ll send you another PM with my email.

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