documentation SUCKS big time…

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  • #72529
    EnzoF04
    Participant
      • Topics: 17
      • Replies: 102
      • Total: 119
      • ★★

      I’m trying to get some basic things to work and spent over 10 days, all evenings to reading, learning and trail-and-erroring but i get to the point of realising that the documentation and the forum SUCKS BIG TIME.
      sorry for expressing my frustration but I really want to mess around with some variables taken from uiCombo or something instead and put the value chosen into a label or textbox or something. NOTHING worked. I’ve got my harddrive full of testpanels nothing, really NOTHING workes as described on the forum or as I picked up from other panels. There is no place in this forum that explains how LUA functions are constructed.
      I really need more info to get successful in achieving my goal.

      It should be a piece of cake but I can’t seem to get any clue on basic tasks of storing combo-chosen-values to global variables and putting them to a visible to user output like a label.

      The only thing i am successful in is sending some stupid sysex from the panel. I am really satisfied that the midi-monitor software i’m running is getting the output from the panel, so i’m convinced that the code is sent but the usual response my Atari gets keeps out when sending it via the CTRLR panel.
      Really frustrating.

      I’ve been thru the whole DSI tutorial on getting started but this is not working for me.
      Point me to a good ‘getting started’ on creating panels. The basics on what is happening in Lua, how to throw around some values you get from interface elements and focus on functions within the panel. Please tell me where to find these crucial infos… Without it i’m not progressing…

      #72530
      proton
      Participant
        • Topics: 19
        • Replies: 94
        • Total: 113
        • ★★

        Hi Enzo,
        althou I can understand your frustration, with this tone (SUCKS/I NEED/POINT ME…) you will not get to much help, believe me. I will consider changing the tone and trying to ask more directed questions.

        One of your issues is Lua. Lua is a scripting language, did you took the time to learn it? If not, how can you expect to be able to work with it? It is not only about copying parts of code from other panels, it is more about the understanding of the language in general. Ctrlr is free and your “price” for using it is the time spent on learning. You can’t say it sucks if it works for dozens of people. maybe the issue is not always the program but maybe the user?
        I’m not saying Ctrl is issue-free, far from it but come on.
        I assume you’ve read the Lua manual and also searched the SUCKY forum and only stupid sysex works.
        Well, maybe you should start with something easier to avoid the instant frustration?
        Just few thoughts for you to consider.
        Have a great day sir!
        Cheers!

        #72531
        human fly
        Participant
          • Topics: 124
          • Replies: 1070
          • Total: 1194
          • ★★★★

          hello Enzo,
          haha! as Proton above will attest, i had a big harumpf, f*** this
          moment a few months back 🙂 – i’m alright now 🙂
          i still can’t code fer s*** but i’m getting around with lua quite
          happily with what i do know, and learn a little more every now
          and then.

          hearing from Proton ‘go off and study in the wilderness for seven
          years, and then return to ask your question’ is a bit disheartening,
          but it turns out that isn’t actually what he is saying. you can get
          a lot of info from a few tips: there is a lot of stuff in 2 or 3
          main panels i ended up looking at, and in the demo files.

          i bookmarked syntax etc. reference pages on lua tutorial sites, looked
          around to see what i could pick up that i could use in ctrlr. more
          of a habituation stage, because practicals is best, and copying and
          modifying, or making little panels to get something working.
          the videos are not fantastic imo.(unless i need to go and have another
          look, which i surely do, because i haven’t even got basics sorted)

          the forum isn’t very reactive: you can ask a perfectly reasonable
          question, and nobody, but NOBODY, picks up on it. ignored.
          and you’re thinking, well come on…this is supposed to be a forum,
          right? where’s the discussion? so you figure ‘i didn’t try hard enough’
          (sensei..) and shuffle away after a whack with the stick to the back
          of the neck…

          Possemo kindly posted a file called:
          Matrix1k_1.0121b.bpanelz
          if you want to search on that. it’s full of useful ideas. the carl
          licroy panels are good to look at, xp30 by dasfaker, and Goodweather’s
          DS panel.

          some good text operations in the demo files. but not for what you
          want. i was thinking of the same thing in fact: how do i get the
          same list i have on this combo to appear in a ‘label’ as a display?
          ie: i want to use a numerical fader to slide the value, and have a
          corresponding display of the text(description) of each value.

          somehow i need a method with a table representing 0-16, with
          what each of those is, ie: 0= x-1, 1=x-1/2, 2=x-1/4, 3=Off, etc.
          that is called with ‘called when value changes’.

          it will end with: panel:getComponent():setProperty(‘uiLabelText”, “??..
          but it is what goes there, and before, to ‘bridge’ from the table to
          the ‘ret’… have not really tried it yet, just thought of it last 24hrs.

          #72532
          Peter_EP
          Participant
            • Topics: 5
            • Replies: 19
            • Total: 24

            Software does take a lot of time and patience to get something useful running. It is usually a whole stream of endless “gotchas” and dead ends. It usually does chew up huge chunks of time and patience. Documentation can be a nightmare to read, understand or even write. For example, an experienced coder would despise documentation aimed at a beginner. It can get snooty (try asking linux people!).

            I made some progress with Ctrlr and even got LUA/JUCE to work but I hit problems that were taking too long to figure out. Talk about killing workflow! “Under the hood” this type of software is very complex, as it hooks into various system libraries and this is the doman of experts such as “atom” they guy behind this, who does a great job in keeping this show running.

            I suggest, just try simple things, one at a time. Make regular backups/copies of every thing done. There are endless gotchas that will drive you mad, it’s not atom’s fault, it’s the way coding is!

            #72533
            Paul Scheidt
            Participant
              • Topics: 2
              • Replies: 11
              • Total: 13

              Enzo,

              I’m also new to Ctrlr, so I completely understand the frustration. You have to go slow, building up a panel piece by piece. Debug each piece before starting on the next one.

              The single most useful information I found was this post to explain the basic procedure to build a new panel:

              what do you need to know in order to make panels?

              This breaks things down into 2 basic steps:
              1. Get the modulator on the panel to SEND the correct message(s) for that particular control. Go reverse engineer a couple example panels to see which uixxxxx type to use and what each parameter does.

              2. Setup the midiMessageReceived function to RECEIVE the corresponding message(s) from the instrument. This function needs to break down the MIDI message, decode it (if necessary), then setModulatorValue on the correct modulator on the panel. This gets tricky because you may need to keep track of 3 different value scales:
              a. ModulatorValue
              b. The MIDI value sent/received (e.g., MSB/LSB for SysEx, MIDI CC, etc…)
              c. What’s actually displayed on the synth
              I’m still a beginner but translating between these 3 scales seems to be the major reason to get into native lua code.

              Two things I’ve figured out just by trial and error using the current build of Ctrlr (5.5.2) on Windows 10:
              1. The panel:sendMidiMessageNow() command seems to cause trouble. For me, it’s sending bogus MIDI messages to the wrong output device and even caused my panel to stop loading. So, I don’t recommend using the panel:sendMidiMessageNow() command as written in that post.

              I just put the SysEx “voice dump” command into a uiButton modulator and it works fine.

              2. I can’t get any console() commands to work. At all. Errors no matter what I do. I figured out a workaround: create a modulator called test so that you can output raw values to it.

              Specifically, in relation to the above thread, that means putting in this kind of statement into the assignValues script:
              panel:getModulatorByName("test"):setModulatorValue(programData:getByte(1), false,false,false)

              where programData:getByte(1) is the data you want to view. Hope this helps! I’m still learning so I’d appreciate any other tips as well.

              #72538
              EnzoF04
              Participant
                • Topics: 17
                • Replies: 102
                • Total: 119
                • ★★

                Proton, Human Fly, Peter_EP and Paul Scheidt, many thanks for the encouragement! That helps and useful pointers to get on enthusiastically! The point that i wanted to make is that it needs to be rewarding for all the starting developers. They need to make progress. If you won’t get any result despite the effort taken. People will drop CTRLR developing and Lua scripting. That’s the biggest loss the scene can take. So by writing a little bit more tutorialish doc’s on the site, you give newbees the kickstart.

                CTRLR and Lua do not suck, they are powerful but locked for the masses, i think.

                Thanks again and i’ll continu where i left last weekend!
                Best regards from The Netherlands

                • This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by EnzoF04.
                #72554
                goodweather
                Participant
                  • Topics: 45
                  • Replies: 550
                  • Total: 595
                  • ★★★

                  Halo Enzo!
                  Yep Ctrlr requests a lot of reading.
                  Please have a look to my Step by Step guide Step by Step guide.
                  Busy to build a v2 with lot’s of Lua inside it and many other additions (I know I’m saying this since some time but i’m doing this “in between” giving the priority to new versions of my DSI panels; anyway it progresses)

                  #72570
                  human fly
                  Participant
                    • Topics: 124
                    • Replies: 1070
                    • Total: 1194
                    • ★★★★

                    i was having a little think (…) about this: because it is
                    a HUGE task for anyone to write up the whole of Ctrlr Getting
                    Started by themselves – not to mention someone having programmed
                    Ctrlr itself single-handedly – and it is not fair or realistic
                    to lay that entirely on Goodweather – when he has already produced
                    a very nice document.

                    looking forwards,

                    1/ i think the Windows HelpFile/HTML type ‘manual’,
                    with a ‘Content’ directory structure would be preferable to pdf:
                    -new entries/titles can be made, it can be re-ordered, easier to
                    browse/search/use – and it can be updated and maintained on a regular
                    basis.

                    2/multiple contributors, with a ‘helpfile editor’ who oks/edits what
                    goes in/what is useful. a user might just have one decent article to
                    submit, eg: for tips+tricks, and then the ‘editor’ decides how to use
                    it.

                    3/useful references from the forum – could just be copied and pasted,
                    with a link to the topic. a kind of ‘manual editor’s dropbox’ could
                    be used for this: seen a good post? send it with the link to manual
                    dude/team. it takes a while to mine for info. but it really is worth
                    typing in a search, as most of it has been touched on at some point.
                    the difficult part is digging out all the good stuff.

                    > early stages could be very ad hoc, as new entries are made, but as
                    a flexible structure, it will naturally shape up over time. still a
                    huge task, but many hands make light work!

                    4/ little example bpanelz or panels to illustrate a programming or
                    Ctrlr principle are the best shorthand for explaining ideas without
                    verbose descriptive text.

                    ??

                    #72571
                    human fly
                    Participant
                      • Topics: 124
                      • Replies: 1070
                      • Total: 1194
                      • ★★★★

                      @Enzo: i’m about ready to start the tx/rx stuff, now that i’ve
                      rebuilt all my modulators – i had a go at an ‘assignModulators’
                      method, and then was thinking of how i could do a slick table
                      of parameters – but i needed to make them all and decide on a
                      naming convention first.

                      i have a feeling i should try this on a smaller device with a
                      shorter bulk dump first – i have 500 params atm, and it will be
                      8x that. … if i do the whole thing.

                      there are ‘midiReceived’ etc. methods and routines to look at in
                      all of the ‘sophisticated’ panels. they all differ a little. i would
                      like to work out a ‘standard’ way that makes sense to me – maybe
                      experiment with a ‘fake dump’ i send or compile with a trigger button
                      first .. ?

                      #72572
                      EnzoF04
                      Participant
                        • Topics: 17
                        • Replies: 102
                        • Total: 119
                        • ★★

                        @Human Fly
                        First reply:
                        I realize that CTRLR is a living project with things added and solutions developed, enhancements embedded and work a rounds altered. That makes it an untameable creature with a quick developing character. I was disappointed about the documentation and the search-ability of it. For that i use Google.com and search:

                        "midiMessageReceived" site:ctrlr.org
                        "setPropertyString"+"("uiLabelText")" site:ctrlr.org

                        this kinda works for me. I’ve come this far and I am satisfied for now.

                        Would it be an idea to create a reference for a large amount of prefixed names and reserved words that Lua uses to construct routines and functions and methods?

                        thanks for listening to my frustration and taking it seriously!

                        #72583
                        human fly
                        Participant
                          • Topics: 124
                          • Replies: 1070
                          • Total: 1194
                          • ★★★★

                          here you go: search for: ‘lua syntax’

                          https://www.tutorialspoint.com/lua/lua_basic_syntax.htm

                          this is one of the good reference sites i have bookmarked
                          (and need to go back to soon)

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