Roland D50 / PG 1000 Panel

[opuswerk]

Hello fellow crtlrs,

As rain and cold has hit where i live, i decided it was time to get on with programming a panel for my trusted Roland D50.
As I also own a Bitstream 3X getting the Hex sysex has been easier than trying to decrypt the manual. Alas, despite me doing my best to get sysex sent to the D50, I can’t get any value to change on the machine. As I believe there are other D50 users on the forum, I was hoping someone could give me a hand to get this going?

I’ve only been working on the filter control for the moment, as it’s the most audible effect, and i wanted to make sure i could get at least something working. Seeing there’s one per Partial, I focused only for their respective frequency and resonance. Unfortunately, despite following and re-reading Atom’s getting started manual, it seems I have to ask for help already.

I’ve uploaded a very simple panel that should only control the filters and if someone is interested in pointing out where i’m wrong, i’ll gladly build from there.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[macrodx]

Hi,

your SysEx messages are missing the value and checksum parameters. Instead, in their place you only have a 00 value…
Try this for lower partial 1 frequ:
F0 41 00 14 12 00 01 4D xx z4 F7
xx will be replaced by Ctrlr with the current modulator value
z4 will be replaced by Ctrlr with the calculated Roland checksum

[opuswerk]

Thanks for your reply!

Will try this as soon as I’m back home.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[opuswerk]

I finally found time to boot up the machines and work on the panel some more. Unfortunately, it seems like my D50 does not respond to the Sysex at all. I suspect I might be missing something on the D50, but after re-reading the manual and more, everything is setup how it should be to receive Sysex.

I also tried monitoring the Sysex input from the synth when changing parameters on it to see if I was sending the wrong message. However, it seems that even though I am sending and receiving notes from it in CTRLR, I can’t seem to receive any messages from the parameter editing. So it’s proving a bit hard to find out if I’m sending the right messages at all. I do suspect the Bitstream 3x to be an accurate list.
I have added a screenshot of the Bitstream editor interface if that can be of any help, as well as the current state of the panel according to macrodx post.

I have quite a clear idea of the layout, so once i get the parameter editing working, it should hopefully be easier to get the rest together.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[macrodx]

The Bitstream settings say “Control value position 1 (V1) = 8”. This is the 00 byte before F7 in the Message. Also it says “Insert sysex checksum = yes”. So Bitstream will do that for you right between the value byte (00) and eox (F7). So the message I´ve suggested for Ctrlr should be correct.

opuswerk wrote:

I suspect I might be missing something on the D50, but after re-reading the manual and more, everything is setup how it should be to receive Sysex.

I think it has something to do with your settings. Could you post in detail how you´ve set up your D-50? Relevant params like RxChannel, DeviceID…

[opuswerk]

Hello MacroDX,

Here’s the info i’ve managed to gather from my synth. I wasn’t too sure of what you meant by RxChannel and DeviceID, as I could not find anywhere on the D50 to set them. Nor could I find anything relevant in the manual. At least to my knowledge… If you can point me in a direction on how to get this data, i will gladly oblige.
Currently, I having all my synths plugged to a ESI Miditerminal M8U. I’m already using CTRLR to control my uWaveXT and my Matrix 1000 with it with no problem whatsoever.

Here’s the data:

On the D50 in the MIDI section I have:

[macrodx]

Hi,
I took a look at the D-50 manual and according to that your settings should enable your device to receive SysEx. The only thing I can´t tell is whether the internal write protection migth prevent this. I have a D-20 and successfully control it using Ctrlr, but it is not comparable to the D-50 SysEx and settings wise (but that´s where my DeviceID question came from. The D-20 has a device ID parameter that let´s it receive SysEx disregarding the MIDI channel)…
Have you tried sending other messages from Ctrlr to the D-50? Like Pitch Bend, Program Change or any of the supported CC´s?

[opuswerk]

I tried setting things up differently on the D50, but to no avail.
Could it be because i have no M64-C card in the synth?

Program changes are transmitted via Ableton, but i couldn’t find where to do this from within CTRLR.
I then tried sending a snapshot of the few settings that are mapped to the D50, but that led to a crash of ctrlr, and the progress bar was not moving.

Is there any one with a d50 on here willing to try it out?

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[opuswerk]

A little update:

After some more heavy googling and the hint that the Bitstream data maybe wasn’t correct (especially seeing as when setting it up directly with the Bitstream no Sysex was getting to the synth) I found the attached excel sheet with all the D50 Sysex compiled by Tom Coppens. The original thread is in dutch and here: http://www.synthforum.nl/forums/showthread.php?t=79477

The sysex data is presented in this format:
F0 41 00 14 12 00 01 44 VAL CHK F7
My question now is how do i translate this so that CTRLR gets it right? I tried replacing VAL and CHK by xx xx but that did not yield any results.
I’m hoping the hunt for info is almost over and that i can get at least one parameter to work soon, so i can get on the layout.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[macrodx]

Hi,

just as I wrote in an earlier post:
VAL = xx
CHK = z4

macrodx wrote:

Hi,

your SysEx messages are missing the value and checksum parameters. Instead, in their place you only have a 00 value…
Try this for lower partial 1 frequ:
F0 41 00 14 12 00 01 4D xx z4 F7
xx will be replaced by Ctrlr with the current modulator value
z4 will be replaced by Ctrlr with the calculated Roland checksum

Another question at this point: Have you ever successfully sent ANY MIDI message from Ctrlr to the D-50?
For example, place a uiMidiKeyboard on the panel and hit a note. Does the D-50 play?
I am still convinced that your message setup is correct (F0 41 00 14 12 00 01 4D xx z4 F7), but there´s a general communication prblem…

[macrodx]

Hi,
as discussed in the chat I´ve attached a beta of my D-20 panel…

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[opuswerk]

Hi,

Thanks to your panel I managed to move leaps forward in very little time. I mostly spent my evening assigning Sysex to the proper ui element. That proved to be fairly easy, and I have one partial down, and most of the common features.
I had decided to focus on the first partial, as once that is done, it should be a matter of copy pasting it and changing the Sysex values, but it seems copying the envelopes doesn’t work for some reason.
Also, I get some very inconsistent rendering when opening the panel in the AU plugin. Some knobs are way off their position and some uiList elements simply don’t show…
I’m not sure i understand properly how you made the tabbed panel. I was hoping maybe it would be possible to avoid having tabs and access all the envelopes and partials in one interface.
Anyways, thanks again for your help. It seems it’s getting there finally 🙂

Curious to hear your thoughts about the issues i’m encountering.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[opuswerk]

Actually,
after having close and opened the panel again, everything’s up side down now, and i get a Lua error on line 18…
Seems like I’m doing something wrong with the grouping.
I guess i’ll call it a night and will try to get back at it tomorrow.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[macrodx]

Hi,
well I never tested it as an AU plugin. I´m aCubase user and as far as rendering goes never had a problem with a panel. Things do get messed up sometimes during design time though, when you copy-paste UI elements around, especially between tabs. I do like the tabs because you can keep things compact, but that´s a matter of taste. You could also use layers instead. Ctrl comes with a demo panel that shows you how to handle them…

opuswerk wrote:

Actually,
after having close and opened the panel again, everything’s up side down now, and i get a Lua error on line 18…

Well, the D-20 panel contains more than 20 scripts, so which line 18 are talking about 🙂 ?

[opuswerk]

I found the culprit line. I hadn’t had time to delve into your lua scripting yet, but I hope i’ll get there soon.

Right now, I’m very much fighting with the copy pasting errors i’m getting. Also for some reason, when undoing a “cut” the group gets back in position but is empty. Is there a way to access the group elements when they are hidden?

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[macrodx]

Without seeing it I assume the controls are still children of the group but are positioned outside its bounds. Most times the only way to get them back in place is by the modulator list, where you can then edit the bounds by hand. Also, when you copy a group then only the group modulator is copied, not the contained modulators. When you paste a modulator that you´ve copied from a group, it is pasted as child of the panel itself. you then have to drag-drop them onto the group and reposition them. If you do that for a multiselection of modulators, always make sure to hold down shift before left-click for dragging. Otherwise your multiselection will be lost and some of the modulators become invisible as they are positioned outside of the group bounds…

Another remark: I did not see much sense in implementing controls for the lower partial, because I don´t think one will have the need to control the upper and lower partial in realtime. As a sound editor, I would use my panel to edit the upper partial, save it and then assign it als lower partial if I want to. But that´s a matter of taste…

[opuswerk]

Thanks for the explanations.
It indeed seems like i very much messed up your panel with copy pasting some elements. It’s a bit tricky to copy whole tabs/groups without CTRLR going out of control. I had it crashing several times, and despite me starting over this evening, it seems the panel I built is completely corrupted and crashes CTRLR every time T_T
It did help me to get to know the Modulator List.
I’m not sure I understood why you built a custom Envelope with Lua when you could have used the CTRLR ones. Any particular reason for that?

I agree with your remarks about the real-time editing. However, I was hoping to build the layout so that you can get an overview of all 4 Tones at all times. If that wasn’t feasible, I am aiming to make it so that you can at least get an overview of the WG, TVF and TVA envelopes and controls in one tab. I quite like to see in one place what is happening with a patch 🙂
That’s what i was trying to build this evening. But after I had finally extracted the different envelopes and controls and cleaned up what needed cleaning from the Modulator List, I can’t open the file no more…

I’ll attach it here in case you can open it. Else, I almost feel like it’ll be easier to start from scratch. There’s much to learn from the D20 Panel, so it might not be as daunting as it seems at first.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

http://opuswerk.tumblr.com
www.soundcloud.com/opuswerk
www.facebook.com/opuswerk

[macrodx]

I couldn´t open it either… If you need any help with the envelope components then tell me.

[lerba]

macrodx wrote:

Hi,
as discussed in the chat I´ve attached a beta of my D-20 panel…

Hi! Thanks for your D-20 panel, looks great! I can’t seem to send sysex to my unit with it though. Program change works fine but that’s CC, right?

Did you use a exclusive unit # in your script or is there something wrong at my end here?

[layzer]

is your midi interface an inexpensive 1×1 usb midi cable?

many of those only transmit note on, prg change and CC but not
sysex. just a hunch

[Author]

Posts