Working standalone, but not in Cubase as plugin

Home Forums General Using Ctrlr Working standalone, but not in Cubase as plugin

This topic contains 31 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by The Elf The Elf 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #83491
    Possemo
    Possemo
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    Ok, I see your points. But if I’d were you I would use two tones per patch otherwise you just have a JX-8P. Well, in whole mode you get a 12 Voice JX-8P. There are some interesting sounds you can get when you layer two tones in dual mode.
    Just out of curiosity – why would be Ctrlr standalone no option for you? Do you need parameter automation that badly? Because there is no other advantage when using my panel. There will be a new version that will save its state into the DAW project file. For me this is the biggest advantage of the plugin version. You won’t have to now which patch you used for a given track. But this new version will take some time until it is finished as I have little spare time and I am still working on the panel for the Moog Source atm.

    #83503
    The Elf
    The Elf
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    TBH the reason I first bought an MKS-70 *was* as a rack-mounting JX-8P (which it replaced)! I’ve never needed it to be any more than that. The doubled voice count was (and remains) a huge plus, and I’d trade that for dual Tones every time.

    When I first discovered the horrors of shared Tones I knew I was never going to use them. From that point my MKS-70 has remained one Patch, one Tone. I’ve actually met a few other owners who’ve done the same. Interestingly, the JP-80×0 finally did things properly and gave us independent Tones within Patches, but with the System 8 Roland back-pedalled to shared Tones again, which is crazy IMO!

    If I ever felt the need to use a dual Tone sound I could use one of the 14 last Patch locations and only layer unedited Tones. I can’t see me doing that, though.

    I may use Ctrtr in standalone up to a point, but I often send small song-specific adjustments to my synths in Cubase. I will call up a preset, then have Cubase make a couple of adjustments on playback. It means I don’t have to save every small adjustment as a new Tone/Patch. I don’t want to have to leap in and out of Cubase to make these edits on the fly.

    It would be very difficult to exploit the new abilities of V4 without an editor. I’m really looking forward to making use of my V4 and your excellent panel!

    An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

    #83504
    Possemo
    Possemo
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    I understand. As you won’t use the lower tone my panel may be a bit over the top as it shows both tones of a patch at once. Well if you monitor is big enough it shouldn’t be a problem. Btw the Vecoven pwm-mod is a lot of work. On the MKS-70 it is even harder as there is not a lot of free space in the case. Some people attached the pwm boards to the voice boards. I didn’t got this way on mine as I didn’t felt comfortable glueing boards together. I hope your synth will be modded sucessfully.

    #83568

    sergeeo
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    Hey!

    I’ve had a similar problem with other panel. AFAIK the multiclient MIDI ports are the problem in Windows. I’ve even tried multiclient drivers for my midi interface and… they just didn’t work.

    I’ve found two different solutions:

    1. Installing a virtual midi device such as LoopBe and using the panel in standalone mode. You can route your midi channels in Cubase to LoopBe input, and in your panel, route the LoopBe out as your input device. This solution is a bit “clumsy” as I’ve noticed a bit extra latency.

    2. Deactivate the MIDI ports where your device is connected in Cubase. Just go to MIDI PORT SETUP menu and set those input/output ports as non visible. Then load your plug-in and let it connect directly to your device. This has been my favourite solution. You have to do this before trying to connect the plug-in 🙂

    Hope this helps

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  sergeeo.
    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  sergeeo.
    #83571
    The Elf
    The Elf
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    Thanks for the advice.

    Option 2 is a non-starter for me, as I explained above. I can’t have Ctrlr taking MIDI ports away from Cubase. It means I can’t name instruments in MIDI Device Manager, and it means I can’t use multiple tracks addressing a single port.

    Option 1 is something my brain has toyed with, but I’ve put it aside for the moment. The specific panel I need to use (MKS-70 V4) relies on MIDI Controllers, rather than sysex, so I should be fine using Ctrlr as-is.

    An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

    #83572

    sergeeo
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    Yep that’s the point, you can’t use that ports from the plug-in because they’re still visible to your Cubase project! First you have to set those ports as “non-visible”, and then you access them through the plug-in. You don’t need the MIDI DEVICE MANAGER for anything.

    I’ve added a screenshot to let you see what you should unmark (my version is in Spanish, but you’ll recognize the menu).

    Lemme know if this works for you.

    PS: If you’ve installed your device using the MIDI DEVICE MANAGER, my advice is to uninstall it and use your device the way I’ve explained.

    PS2: Sorry, I’ve read the whole thread n_n If you don’t want to keep a dedicated port to that synth, I guess this isn’t useful for you.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  sergeeo.
    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  sergeeo.
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    #83576
    The Elf
    The Elf
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    I assure you that I do understand, but I absolutely *don’t* want to make the ports unavailable to Cubase. And I most definitely *do* want to use MIDI Device Manager. Without MDM I have to remember ports and I have too many to be mucking around like that. Plus once Ctrlr has control of the port I can’t use a second MIDI Track to access the port that Ctrlr has commandeered.

    It really doesn’t work for me. I’m happier with the solution I have.

    An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

    #83728
    The Elf
    The Elf
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    Thought I’d give you the courtesy of a follow-up,,,

    What can I say? Thank you so much for this panel!

    It really does make all the difference to the Vecoven upgrade. The upgrade makes the MKS-70 the synth it always should have been and your Ctrlr panel makes it actually USABLE. The layout is excellent, and it is legible, even to these tired old eyes. So clever to be able to invert the envelope displays.

    I’ll admit I’m baffled by the librarian – I’ve tried to load banks in, but all it has done is wipe what was there and the MKS-70 does nothing in response, apart a quick blink of its MIDI light. I also don’t see how to load the panel with the current Patch from the MKS-70. This is in standalone mode, of course.

    The main thing to say is well done, and a huge THANKS! I’m in your debt.

    An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

    #83729
    Possemo
    Possemo
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    Thanks for your credits. I will check the librarian. Last time I used it it worked flawlessly. Do you have the flash memory upgrade? I don’t have it therefore I cannot test it. Maybe the flash memory behaves differently. I am planning to upgrade the panel with my latest know-how. The plugin will be able to save its state within the DAW project and there will be some other improvements. While I’m on it I will add a configurable send-delay for bank transfers. On the Matrix-1000 panel some people needed this in order to get it working correctly.

    I agree that you absolutely need an editor for the Super-JX. The many additions of Vecoven v4 make it even more indispensable. Being able to assign 4 different envelopes and 2 LFOs either normal or inverted to many modules is great but without a visual interface you will never know what you are doing. I was astonished how few people with Vecoven v4 do care about the panel. On the facebook group there were about 3 to 5 people who showed some interest in the panel. Then someone made a template for the BCR-2000 – dozens of people bought a BCR-2000 because of that… well no problem I made the panel for myself and the few people who want to know what they are doing when creating a patch on the Super-JX 😉

    #83730
    The Elf
    The Elf
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    Yes, I do have the 32 internal bank (flash module?) upgrade as well (when I decided to go for the upgrade I decided to go for the whole shebang!). Maybe that is the thing making the difference, as you say. FWIW I collected this in a discussion with Fred:
    Is it possible to change the flash bank number from midi message? I have a few sounds spread across multiple banks and need to switch between them across the song.
    Fred: Yes, you can send a midi control message (bank select 0x00), parameter is 0..15 (M1024 external cartridge) or 16..47 (flash module).

    I’m not sure whether this is relevant – I would have thought that your librarian should get a good response for a bank dump request, regardless of which bank is currently in play.

    Anyway, I’m happy to be your guinea pig, if you need one.

    I also don’t get the BCR-2000 thing. A physical controller is fine, but with the additional parameters of a V4 MKS you need some visual cues to help you navigate, and even an overlay isn’t going to help in that respect.

    I’ve put my own toe in the water with MIDI Designer Pro – I’ve managed to sweep the cut-off and resonance from an X-Y pad… :o)

    An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

    #83744
    Possemo
    Possemo
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    So you say receiving banks from the synth does not work? I thought you are talking about sending banks to the synth. I think receiving should work no matter what memory expansion you have. With a normal M-64C cartridge selecting patches is very simple: program change from 0 to 63 are the 64 internal patches, pc from 64 to 127 are used for the 64 cartridge patches. My “Get Bank” procedure is working like this – get patch 0 to 63 one by one when selecting “Get Int”. This also works with the M-1024C cartridge. You will get the actually selected bank when fetching patch 64 to 127 by pushing “Get Card”.

    I will look into this on the next weekend.

    There is already an editor made with MIDI Designer:
    https://mididesigner.com/qa/4116/layout-roland-jx-10-mks-70-with-vecoven-pwm-kit
    I guess it is not bidirectional but it doesn’t look too bad.

    I do have an old Doepfer “Drehbank”. I agree that it can be fun to twist knobs, but I don’t need more than a few parameters for this – e.g. cutoff, reso and maybe ADSR of one env. A completely different thing compared to designing patches.

    #83763
    The Elf
    The Elf
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    All working now!

    The MKS-70 was set to disallow Program Change messages. All sorted now.

    I can’t tell you how grateful I am for all your help and advice. If you can get a PM to me I’ll send you a couple of CDs as a thank you.

    An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

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