Ableton MIDI Out

[atom]

Is it possible to send MIDI messages (any kind) directly from VST plugins in ableton ?
But i mean messages generated by the plugin not the midi track that the vst plugin has (midi notes), i mean like CCs from the knobs or note events ? If so how?

[kristia]

not quite sure what you mean, but yes its possible.. f.ex. if I map the filter cutoff of say Arturia ARP2600V to CC# 8 on my controller; if I move the filter cutoff of the plugin inside the plugin itself, my controller recieves the values (the values are updated on the controler). I have no idea HOW ableton implements this however; it just works

[atom]

well that's ableton talking not the plugin.

i want to generate MIDI messages from the plugin without any Ableton interaction, all Ctrlrs send MIDI messages, i thought that ableton didn't support SysEx messages but NoteOn/Off and CC get through but this looks like i'm wrong, and nothing gets through.

[darkdistractions]

that's what i was talking about in earlier discussion, ableton does not support sysex but does support cc's, but it seems that it does not work with the ctrls, i can't record for exemple when i map the filter freq of the ctrl to a knob on the APC 40, then, i turn it but ableton does not record the move, i guess ableton does not get the cc's sent , that's weird,
hope i'm clear

[atom]

i don't think we are not talking about the same thing.

i'll draw a small diagram that will show how MIDI routing should work in a DAW with VST support and then we'll continue with this discussion (it's a simple thing really).

[atom]

A quick flow chart of how MIDI is passed aroung in a DAW with VST plugins, thhe output that interests me, is triggered by any input but goes out of the plugin not from the DAW. The plugin is the big square in the middle.

[kristia]

I see what you mean; but how can you control what MIDI events should be handled by the DAW and what MIDI events should be sent directly to the device? To me, it seems that everything goes through the DAW before it passes it on to whatever its internal routing is set up to be.. this is interesting... didn´t know that a "direct" MIDI option was possible... Here´s an interesting note though: I also have an Alesis Micron and to control it I have the Micron AU which is a donateware AU controller... the Micron only responds to SysEX (no Midi CC# / NRPN at all as far as I am aware)... I am able to MIDI map etc. controls to this AU device perfectly in Live and control the synth... I don´t know how this actually happens in practice as I also thought that Live pretty much couldn´t cope with SysEx, but maybe it just echoes it to the Micron..

[atom]

You access the hardware directly by openning it, this works only if the current OS and MIDI driver allow it. Sometimes the driver doesnt (very often on windows) and once the MIDI port is opened in the DAW you can't open it again in the plugin. Sometimes you can, i bet your Micron AU controller opens MIDI ports directly and uses those to communicate with the device, bypassing the DAW completly.

[kristia]

wow I´m learning so much! I think you are spot on; I always wondered why, in the Micron AU GUI, you have to specify MIDI channel, device etc. and not just use the channels on the track it was assigned to in Ableton Live. The editor has its own "setup" page which has to be set up completely independent of the settings of the actual MIDI track it is put on in Live. So.. is this what Ctrlr does?

[TonE]

You access the hardware directly by openning it, this works only if the current OS and MIDI driver allow it. Sometimes the driver doesnt (very often on windows) and once the MIDI port is opened in the DAW you can't open it again in the plugin. Sometimes you can...

Well, yes, still there are MIDI-OX and MIDI-Yoke which any Windows MIDI user should install and use. Midi-Yoke ports can be opened as often as you want, or at least I never reached its limits. So opening twice is for sure possible, and this is what we need mostly I believe.

If the Ableton MIDI Out issue is still relevant, I can try to find the answer.