ctrlr needs a loong time to reload

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  • #567
    etf
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      since build 933 my ableton live project (with just 2 instances of ctrlr) needs a huge amout of time when i reload it.

      i remember that you’ve said that the reason for this is, that the amount of exported parameters increased from 256 to 2048. i assume 2048 parameters can be handy if you want to have all your synths/midi channels in just one single track in the daw (at least i don’t know any synth with 2048 available parameters?). but then again, i think the common way of music production (with a workable overview), is that EACH synth (midi channel) has it’s OWN and dedicated track. in this case 100-200 available parameters per panel is mostly absolutely enough.

      my idea is to use 6-8 ctrlr plugins in a song (not THAT much). but if i imagine how long this project would reload then, i assume meanwhile i can cook something, go with the dog out and finish the book i ever wanted to write;) – ok, not really but still a lot.

      atom, is it doable to reduce this drastically? at least for users which dont need 2048 parameters per pannel. maybe the user could set his own individual "parameter amount" himself? unfortunately the last question about this, didnt get answered.

      cheers

      #3976
      atom
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        I answered it a few times to other i’m sure. It is optional by creating a .overrides file in the same directory as the plugin, the overrides file is a XML file, an example should be in the Doc folder with Ctrlr, an example with 512 params loooks like this:
        [code:wuxxulpu]
        <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

        <ctrlrOverrides ctrlrMaxExportedVstParameters="512"
        ctrlrShutdownDelay="256"
        ctrlrUseEditorWrapper="0"
        ctrlrLuaDisabled="0"
        ctrlrLogToFile="0"
        />
        [/code:wuxxulpu]

        The naming scheme for that file is important for example if your VST file is in: C:develctrlrv4BinVSTWin32 and the file is Ctrlr-VST-Debug-Win32.dll then the overrides file should be in the same folder with the name Ctrlr-VST-Debug-Win32.overrides (same path same file name different extension). It will be loaded before anything else in Ctrlr and should override the default 2048 parameters.

        #3977
        etf
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          oh, many thanks for that instruction, didnt find an answer about this problem and thought there isn’t a solution jet. the loading time is much more faster! though it seems that the plugin gui behave a bit buggy.

          – it seems that the gui window is/are 2 different parts (the panel part, and the upper part named "this is a dumb ctrlr wrapper" which you need to click when you want to move the window
          – then when you move (drag/drop) the window, just the upper part is moving. and the panel window stays where it was, until you stop moving. then it follows the upper window part.
          – if the gui is open and you select another track in the daw, the gui doesnt disappear automatically like other plugins behave. bad is that then (another track is selected) the upper window part disappears which you need for closing the gui. so the gui is always in front of the daw (ableton) until you found its track to close it.

          it happens with the vst and also with au (at least on mac).

          #3978
          etf
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            guess i found it out myself. when i set "ctrlrUseEditorWrapper" to "0" the gui behaves like usual, before it was set to "1" (like it is in the .overrides).
            should i set the other functions below also to "0", like in your posted example?

            #3979
            atom
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              That wrapper has a very important function, in Live and perhaps other Hosts you won’t get any keyboard input to Ctrlr if the wrapper is off. This is a problem with how Live passes keyboard events to plugins, So you need the wrapper if you plan to use keyboard in Ctrlr, if you really don’t need any keyboard just the mouse you’re fine without the wrapper. I’ll fix up that wrapper on the mac in a moment of free time i tested it on windows only and it works, as usual the mac is a different dimension.

              #3980
              etf
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                strange, in my case (mac?) it seems to work with ableton if i set ctrlrUseEditorWrapper to "0" (no wrapper). ableton sends sequenced midi notes thru ctrlr, and also its possible for me to play midi notes with a keyboard thru ctrl…

                #3981
                dasfaker
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                  Atom means a QWERTY keyboard

                  #3982
                  etf
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                    i see, my bad. thanks for clarification dasfaker. and i already asked myself why there should be a difference between midi notes from the host, or from a midi keyboard! :lol:

                    #3983
                    etf
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                      i have to admit that my joy was a bit too early. using the .overrides file did help (i set ctrlrMaxExportedVstParameters to "255" and ctrlrShotdownDelay to "64"), but the (re)loading time is still very huge! i’ve compared ctrlr with other (very resources hungry) plugins – and ctrlr needs muuuch longer.

                      i used a very simple ctrlr panel (no graphics included) with 200 simple uiSliders (200 parameters for synths like the mopho aren’t too much). then i duplicated this ctrlr instance 7 times to get 8 tracks for 8 midi channels (also not much, "half midi port"). you can find this "test-panel" in the attachment.

                      now when i save and reload the host project with 8 ctrlr instances, it needs 26 seconds! for an "empty" project with no other stuff inside this is a lot.
                      when i’m doing the same procedure with 8 instances of any other plugin (i used very hungry ones) the max! time of reloading is just about 4 seconds.

                      so in compare to any other plugin ctrlr needs at least 6 times longer to reload….

                      i’m almost sure that this wasn’t such a big difference in older ctrlr versions. anyway: is there any chance to reduce this reloading time of ctrlr? would be nice if ctrlr could be "slim" like other plugins. i’m reloading my projects very often to "undo" a bunch of steps. thats why this topic is so important for me. thanks

                      #3984
                      atom
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                        I’ll try to do what i can to improve the load times, but this will be very hard most of the load time is the painting and creation of the components, witch need to be created from a XML document it takes time and is really hard to speed up.

                        #3985
                        dasfaker
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                          "etf":278j4x0s wrote:
                          now when i save and reload the host project with 8 ctrlr instances, it needs 26 seconds![/quote:278j4x0s]

                          Then try to load a project with 4 instances of the Virus Snow panel… 26 seconds is speed of light compared to my 4 minutes!!

                          I had the idea to make a panel for all of my synths, specially the multitimbral ones, but I abandoned the idea once I tried the Virus one. I can’t imagine a project with 20 or 30 panels

                          "etf":278j4x0s wrote:
                          i have to admit that my joy was a bit too early. using the .overrides file did help (i set ctrlrMaxExportedVstParameters to "255" and ctrlrShotdownDelay to "64"), but the (re)loading time is still very huge! i’ve compared ctrlr with other (very resources hungry) plugins – and ctrlr needs muuuch longer.

                          i used a very simple ctrlr panel (no graphics included) with 200 simple uiSliders (200 parameters for synths like the mopho aren’t too much). then i duplicated this ctrlr instance 7 times to get 8 tracks for 8 midi channels (also not much, "half midi port"). you can find this "test-panel" in the attachment.
                          [/quote:278j4x0s]

                          Be aware that if you reduce MaxExportedVstParameters to 255 and load 8 panels with 200 modulators, you will need 2040 VstParameters (200 x 8) to allow automation of all of them inside the daw

                          #3986
                          atom
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                            The example project loads in 5 seconds on my pc in debug mode, with a small update i reduced it to 3 seconds. I’ll try to do more where i can.

                            #3987
                            etf
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                              [quote:2bws33fv]26 seconds is speed of light compared to my 4 minutes!![/quote:2bws33fv]
                              whoo 4 minutes?? not bad. though the virus snow panel seems to have a lot of graphics and looks complex, btw good work! but 4 minutes are unimaginable for my way of doing songs.
                              [quote:2bws33fv]Be aware that if you reduce MaxExportedVstParameters to 255 and load 8 panels with 200 modulators, you will need 2040 VstParameters (200 x 8) to allow automation of all of them inside the daw[/quote:2bws33fv]
                              my idea was to use several instances/plugins (each midi channel has its own ctrlr instance, not several panels in one ctrlr plugin). isn’t the MaxExportedVstParameter value meant PER ctrlr plugin, or did i missunderstand something?
                              [quote:2bws33fv]The example project loads in 5 seconds on my pc in debug mode, with a small update i reduced it to 3 seconds. I’ll try to do more where i can.[/quote:2bws33fv]
                              5 seconds if 8 seperate plugins with this example panel are loaded? very cool that there seems to be something doable!

                              #3988
                              dasfaker
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                                "etf":2khpwfvs wrote:
                                my idea was to use several instances/plugins (each midi channel has its own ctrlr instance, not several panels in one ctrlr plugin). isn’t the MaxExportedVstParameter value meant PER ctrlr plugin, or did i missunderstand something?[/quote:2khpwfvs]

                                The MaxExportedVstParameter is for each Ctrlr instance. But Atom said in previous posts that using several instances of Ctrlr in a host could be problematic, maybe he can tell us if this was solved. And with multitimbral synths is necessary to load each part of the synth in the same Ctrlr instance (unless they could share the midi ports)

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