ctrlr + renoise interopability

[msepsis]

ultimately I came to ctrlr to help bridge the gap between my hardware synths and my daw of choise – renoise. I heard of several issues with the two applications playing nicely together but am hoping to be able to help shepard this along…

for starters at the moment renoise does not seem to recognize the ctrlr.dll as a plugin. I tried obviously copying the ctrlr.dll into my system VST path with no success (although the other DAWsI try on this system do see ctrlr and can load it as a vst, etc).. yet renoise does not show ctrlr as a loadable vst. Just for good measure (and due to the number of ctrlr updates) I went ahead and added the program filesctrlrx64 path as an additional plugin path in renoise… still no dice.

Is this a renoise "issue" or a ctrlr "issue" ?

Ironically it was on the renoise boards that I first heard of ctrlr a month or so back.

many thanks!!

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[atom]

well i can give it a check, i remember working with renoise on Linux, but never touched it on windows. if there is a demo i’ll download and check.

[atom]

well i downloaded (quickly) loaded the latest ctrlr and it all works fine. loads runs exits, not a single warning in the debugger, no crashes.

[msepsis]

ahhh the joys of windows.

what windows version are you using?

32 or 64 bit ctrlr?
renoise is only 32 bit on windows so I’m downloading the 32 bit ctrlr version… I’ll bet that was my issue..

Im on the latest and greatest renoise so if that’s not it Ill be seriously scratching my head here.

I usually use renoise on osx or linux myself, but since ctrlr is being devd in windows I figured I’d stay on the same page…

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[atom]

well i use Windows7 x64 and am loading the 32bit version of Ctrlr (since renoise is 32bit), everything works fine. What windows are you using, maybe i can try it on a different pc (i have a few around)

[msepsis]

I’m an identical set up – win7 64bit, running renoise (only 32bit) with ctrlr (32bit only) in my vst path. I have not been able to install anything into my program files x86 folder for as long as I can remember, windows tells me I don’t have permissions… I’ve chmod’d the folder, set the perms in explorer, done every incantation I can think of to give myself (the only user on this windows partition) perms… so I put my VST folder at C:VSTs… that’s where I’m pointing to from within renoise as my plugin path… computer is a sony vaio vpccw13fx… just installed windows 7 on it a few months back and pretty much never used it until a few weeks ago..

when i first put the ctlrVST.dll in my C:VST path then load renoise and reload my plugin folder I see a message that it’s "scanning" ctrlrVST.dll, but when it reports how many vsts it finds it doesn’t find anything new… and sure enough when I go to add a VST into an instrument in renoise, ctrlr does not show up. I only have three VSTs installed on this system besides ctrlr – reaktor, absynth and fm8, all legit as is everything on this system so I don’t think there’s any foul play going on as a result of keycrackers/malware etc etc..

Read up a bit about the perms issue w/ the program files folder… I hear it’s something that’s plagued windows since vista – it’s a problem but microsoft doesn’t consider it a bug.. good times.

like i said OHhhh the joys of using windows. I really haven’t touched windows much since XP sp2 2005ish… so maybe somebody who knows more about kickboxing windows could help me out?

-Rob

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[atom]

there is something wrong with Renoise and those VST paths, i have my Ctrlr_VST.dll in Program Files(x86)VstPlugins, yet Renoise had a path on disk C: configure and loaded my Ctrlr from disk . Weird (though i’m pretty sure that my registry contains the path on the disk ) but i was able to put Ctrlr_VST.dll in some completly different folder and Renoise loaded it no problem.

[msepsis]

There is something wrong with windows on this laptop, i’m suspecting. I can get ctrlr to load from renoise on my macbookpro no problem.
I’m not going to futz with getting ctrlr loading as a vst on this vaio in win7 for too much longer, my main music production machine (which my main MIDI interface is connected to) is a mac anyway.
I suspect if it works for you and nobody else has chimed in here it must just be a windows fluke.. there are obvious permissions issues with this windows install anyway, so that’s probably where the issue lies, just odd that the NI vsts are found and can load with no issue.

I usually use AVLinux on this vaio but I’m never lugging midi gear around with the laptop so its not a major priority for me, but my mac at home dual boots through rEFIt to linux as well, Should I expect to be able to load ctrlr and my panel in renoise in linux?

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[atom]

well if i get those linux builds up and running then yes it should work.

[msepsis]

ctrlr loads in renoise on my mac, no issues there.. I completely wiped windows off my vaio – that OS is piece of crap waste of time, I’ll take open-source over windows any day. I’m excited to know you are planning to update the ctrlr linux builds.

cheers

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[msepsis]

and after finally gathering the wherewithal, I completely re-installed windows 7 fresh on my vaio.. ctrlr indeed loads as a vst within renoise like a charm on windows. As I suspected my win7 install was fubared on this vaio when reporting my original issue at the top of this thread.

It seems however that renoise will not send midi messages unless the instrument type is "ext. MIDI"…
NO triggers or MIDI messages are sent from a VST instrument type to any MIDI out port, and there is no way to load a VST into a ext MIDI instrument type within renoise…. This feels mostly like a renoise limitation, one that with a little pushing will hopefully be resolved soon, but I’m wondering if I could get some other people to try their panel in renoise to confirm this before I send the renoise devs chasing after this. I’ll ask on the renoise forums but I recall hearing this stated once before when ctrlr was brought up there in some discussions.

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[majik]

hey there (first post etc..)

quite new to ctrlr, loving it so far. I’m currently celebrating as i just managed to send sysex messages to my juno 2 to control some basic parameters and then automate these using an "Inst. Automation" plugin all within Renoise, using win7.

At first I had some problems.. I had sequeneced some notes in renoise triggering the juno using an Ext. MIDI Inst, as standard… then I had a seperate renoise instrument with a ctrlr instance but when i tried to select my midi output device to the Juno it wouldnt let me as the port was already in use in renoise on the instrument.

To get around this, I realised that I had some of my midi ports duplicated – ie, in my renoise MIDI device list I had:

MIDISPORT 2×2 Out B
and
MIDISPORT 2×2 Out B (WDM)

It seems that renoise can access another way to the midi port through a windows driver (WDM). my guess is that probably this is because its some kind of compliant device that windows sees as well as the official midi driver. hence, this enabled me to send midi on the same port twice, one for the note information using the "(WDM)" driver and one for sysex stuff through ctrlr with the standard driver…..

WOOHOO!!!

is this what you were looking to do? or is this common knowledge.? ok, i had to use two renoise instruments to be able to do this, but i dont see that as a problem really. I only just figured this out but it seems to work well so far. its cool how renoise remembers the exact state of the panel without having to load/save every time so it keeps all ya stuff together, a less-to-do advantage over using standalone ctrlr

mmmm automating Sysex all from within renoise….. ive dreamt of this moment!!!!

[msepsis]

the problem wasn’t accessing the same midi port twice, the problem is that plugin instruments (VSTs) in renoise can not receive from a specified MIDI device and channel.

I was told that what I’m trying to do has been asked before on the renoise forums and the only way to get a plugin inst type in renoise to speak MIDI is through using energy XT.. this was straight from one of the renoise devs…

so… how exactly did you get ctrlr to send midi in a plugin instrument type in renoise???

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[majik]

well its sending sysex fine for me and i just tested it sending standard CC messages to my Waldorf Pulse, which also works! I didn’t do anything out of the ordinary to get it working, other than having to make use of the duplicate MIDI ports. Here’s a rundown of what i did:

Setup an Ext. MIDI Instrument to my synth (i did this using a WDM midi device)
Sequence some notes in the tracker and play
Instantiate Ctrlr on another renoise Instrument slot
Go into Ctrlr (Ext. Editor), Click devices icon and select relevant output device
If Ctrlr can use it will be highlighted GREEN, (if it is RED, see ** below)
go into edit mode, select output device and relevant channel for hardware
create a slider for a CC….
etc etc

and you should have some action!! i did – so not sure about what you’ve been told there – maybe there’s some wires crossed / or maybe theyve updated midi capabilities now? I’m running 2.7.1 on win 7 64bit

** if you dont have duplicate MIDI devices to use, renoise and ctrlr are fighting for the same MIDI port and only one can win. a workaround here would be to use another bit of standalone software which enables you to do in-the-box MIDI patching such as MIDI YOKE so you could send to two different virtual midi channels in renoise and then in MIDI YOKE you could combine those together to send to your bit of gear. this may actually be better for midi timing as you can pipe everything out using one reliable driver

a slightly annoying thing when working with ctrlr in renoise is that i cant seem to write in some of the values with the keyboard when building a panel – because it doesnt seem to have proper window focus and plays notes in renoise instead! so i’ve been having to use notepad to copy and paste – grrr…. this may be a renoise bug – dont know.. but i can live with it for now, or go standalone to build the panels

[atom]

Actualy that focus problem is something i already fixed for Live on windows, but this will be soon optional for any host/platform

[msepsis]

majik-
I do have the same functionality, I think my expectation was off, that Id only need the one ctrlr instance to not control the parameters AND trigger notes. I wasn’t fully aware of this as I’ve been using ctrlr mostly in standalone.

Thanks, I recall this is also how the rekon VSTs work within DAWs.

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

[msepsis]

just for the record I was alerted by Taktik (lead renoise dev) regarding the MIDI input setting for all instrument types.. I think this was a part of the 2.7 update which fell off my radar because I was so busy playing with the new xrni format in renoise.

Go to instrument settings, at the bottom left you’ll see "MIDI Input" in vertical text with a little arrow. expand the arrow. boy meets world, and the clouds part and I slap my forehead amazed that I had somehow missed this.. (as i imagine the dev who told me to use energyXT within renoise did) I do not recommend majik’s method of using the windows driver. .. although you’ll "get some action" MIDI timing will not be reliable at all.

Monstrum Media | Music, Sound & Software Design, Chicago / San Francisco listen

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