Kawai K5000 Macro Controller (GUI, help request)

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  • #39701
    reklamchef
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    **Update 3/9/2015
    put in more knobs. added basic midi CC to most of the knobs. IN PROGRESS!

    Feel free to use this image if you want to make your own panel.

    Open collaboration. See attached .bpanelz

    sysex seems well documented, I just need a bit of help or interest. http://www.kawaius-tsd.com/OM/K_SYNTH/K5000%20MIDI.pdf

    • This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by reklamchef.
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    #41095
    jojjelito
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    Well,FWIW I have one and would love a light-weight Macro panel to slot into my DAW, plus it would be a great asset to both K5000r and w owners.

    #42357
    reklamchef
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    the most recent version of the panel is uploaded in the original post (i dont know how to erase the others)

    I’m using midi cc to control this, is there any benefit to using the SYSEX formula?

    #46606
    gustinnian
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    Looks good so far… I’m interested (I’ve just hunted down my very own K5KR) but probably won’t have enough time until the summer holidays.
    FYI I’m not a total Ctrlr novice – I previously made a functioning AN1X panel, but got frustrated when it wouldn’t work in Logic 9 properly (nothing else does apparently, worked fine stand alone…) – something to do with Juice library and AU I recall. So I might be able to help. I really must get around to learning Lua someday soon…

    #69000
    reklamchef
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    Looks good so far… I’m interested (I’ve just hunted down my very own K5KR) but probably won’t have enough time until the summer holidays.
    FYI I’m not a total Ctrlr novice – I previously made a functioning AN1X panel, but got frustrated when it wouldn’t work in Logic 9 properly (nothing else does apparently, worked fine stand alone…) – something to do with Juice library and AU I recall. So I might be able to help. I really must get around to learning Lua someday soon…

    I am an eternal CTRLR novice, just too many things on my plate. I made this one using plain old MIDI cc I think 😉

    The dream is to make an actual Additive synthesis editor that DOESN’T SUCK, and that’s going to require fancy scripting within CTRLR to do math in order to make a usable GUI. The Sounddiver GUI is ok, but forget trying to edit harmonics, there is a tiny little knob to select something like 64 harmonics, each of which has an ADSR, the K5K is next to impossible to edit with or without Sounddiver, so it is screaming for an interface. Not to mention a semi intelligent librarian that can make sense of the limited memory slots, plus allow for some sort of auditioning. The K5000 is Kawai’s greatest synthesizer and I hope one day humanity can start figuring out how to control this bad mother.

    #69018
    Possemo
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    I am interested in an editor for my K5000r too. I am busy with lots of other things (mainly my job) but if I get the time I will be willing to contribute.

    btw. your question about CC vs Sysex: as far as I know it is always better to use CC if the synth supports it. As Sysex is not designed for realtime parameter value changes synths are reacting smoother to CC’s.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Possemo.
    #69021
    reklamchef
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    I am interested in an editor for my K5000r too. I am busy with lots of other things (mainly my job) but if I get the time I will be willing to contribute.

    btw. your question about CC vs Sysex: as far as I know it is always better to use CC if the synth supports it. As Sysex is not designed for realtime parameter value changes synths are reacting smoother to CC’s.

    that sounds good! I should create some sort of a mockup, i think the K5Kr deserves a reasonable GUI. I have some ideas, for example using parabolic curves to control more than one harmonic (or their envelope points) , stuff to take some of the tedium out of it for the end user. and an EQ-like additive filter editor. all about using today’s intelligent scripting gymnastics and ease-of-GUI ergonomics to the max in order to serve up the meat and potatoes that the K5K wants.

    one should be able to draw the harmonics across the board with a mouse gesture for example, and switch to each of the A,S,D and R to be able to do the same thing, respectively. same for the filter, need to see each harmonic really big and fat and have a fast interface response to said mouse drawing.

    If done right, then we just might be able to create loads of awesome new presets for 2016.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by reklamchef.
    #69025
    Possemo
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    Yea that would be great, but a lot of work. It is probably all doable with Ctrlr but I don’t know if I got all the skills needed. First I would want to make an editor with a feature set similar to MidiQuest but with a nicer gui: https://www.squest.com/Products/MidiQuest11/Instruments/KawaiK5000s/

    #69034
    Possemo
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    Here is a quick try completing the macro panel. I must say that I am new to K5000r I just looked into the midi implementation chart and entered untested vaules in the panel. I saw that the arpeggiator patterns have each 8 variations which you can (respectively must) set in the sysex message. I set them all to 1. Will test it when I’ve got the time.

    Ctrlr crashed a lot when I select some sliders. I tried re-saving the pictures with photoshop but it did not help.. don’t know what Ctrlr does not like in this panel. But when you don’t edit the panel it seems to work.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Possemo.
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    #69088
    Possemo
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    I just completed this panel. I added a selector to select the pattern variation and on/off buttons for the arp and portamento. This will be my last contribution to this panel. If I find the time I will try to make a panel that lets you edit all parameters of the mighty K5000r but this will take a lot of time, so nobody should hold his breath…

    Edit: Oh no, I forgot the Ctrlr bug that shrinks the height of the panel by 24px when you export it… fixed in v0.6.1

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Possemo.
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    #69094
    Possemo
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    • ★★★

    I installed sounddiver on my win10 pc and hey, it seems to work! – surprise. Look at this mess of parameters. Emagic tried hard to visualize the additive synthesis to the max, but still – you don’t see very well what you are doing. To say the least – it is not self explanatory. But then my programming skills won’t allow to make a similar editor in Ctrlr leave alone something even more sophisticated. So for now I will have to give up on the idea of making “the final editor” for the K5000.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Possemo.
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    #69100
    reklamchef
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    Awesome! Thanks for picking up the Macro controller. it just works!

    maybe it would be cool if there were more controls on the macro controller like ADSR for a group amplitude sort of thing that relatively adjusts all the params or something. Anyway, plenty of room for inspiration here.

    Sound diver tried didnt they? Yeah it is going to take almost a reinvention of the synth to come up with macros that can intelligently handle a few params at the same time or in tandem, etc.

    i see additive synths as a sort of waterfall or simple wavetable, maybe that thought could lead to something one of these days.

    #69102
    Possemo
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    • ★★★

    Yea as each of the 64 resp. 128 harmonics has his own envelope you should be able to “sculpt” the entire set like on a 3d graphics editor. The formant filter seems to be a powerful tool for “post processing” the harmonics – it has only one envelope that can go positive or negative and you have a lot presets for the formant “steps” like lopass, lopass reso, hipass, phaser etc. like an extremely versatile multimode filter (in analog speaking).

    #69126
    reklamchef
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    here’s one easy way to implement the additive element control: harmonaut by tonebytes gui element suggestion for k5000r ctrlr panel

    #69147
    Possemo
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    • ★★★

    Yes that looks interesting. So you set a curve for level, attack, decay, sustain and release. But I don’t know how to make a curve in Ctrlr. A bunch of sliders won’t cut it.

    #69148
    reklamchef
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    just vertical sliders for each harmonic parameter. one page would be for the attack, another page would be for the release, etc. the advantage is the speed and ease one could modify exactly the parameter you wanted. it’s not perfect but…

    and the filter on the k5000 seems like a series of sliders that attenuate the levels of each harmonic, and when put into motion, the ‘curve’ just moves to the left or right, this is my theory at least. resonance i presume would i assume boost the overall volume ceiling of all the harmonics (bands)

    at any rate, it will be way better to be able to draw the harmonics as well as filter bands with the mouse.

    so the first challenge would be to make one vertical slider that only works when the mouse pointer is over its rectangle WHILE left click, and stops working when the mouse is no longer over it. (also, only sending data when there is a parameter change, not at polling rate!)

    #69349
    arkation
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    I’m definitely super-keen to see this happen! Any progress?

    #69356
    Possemo
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    • ★★★

    I looked into the sysex midi implementation and I have to say that it will be quite hard to do. Lots of checksums and lots of data, and no real documentation of the sysex dump. I will first make a panel for the Matrix1000 and then maybe will attack the K5000. Reverse engineering the sysex dump will take ages so better not hold your breath – sorry.

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