June 27, 2018 at 10:16 pm #84386
It looks like the github Ctrlr repository has been taken down because it infriges some Steinberg copyrights. I don’t see what exactly the problem is. It could be because some people are selling panels. You will probably have to buy the Steinberg VST SDK when you sell products made with it.
The same would apply to the Juce libraries but Roli seems to be more tolerant.
Oh my. I think that was it. The Ctrlr project has been terminated. what a shame :’-(June 27, 2018 at 11:44 pm #84388
Steinberg wants to drop VST2 by October 2018 in favor of VST3 and will disallow distributing software that include VST2 SDK unless you got a signed license from them.
// (c) 2017, Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH, All Rights Reserved
// This Software Development Kit may not be distributed in parts or its entirety
// without prior written agreement by Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH.
// This SDK must not be used to re-engineer or manipulate any technology used
// in any Steinberg or Third-party application or software module,
// unless permitted by law.June 27, 2018 at 11:48 pm #84389June 28, 2018 at 2:49 pm #84390
So what are the chances to get repository back (without vst2 sdk) ?
@possemo I dont think it’s because of the panels . It’s too small market.June 28, 2018 at 3:00 pm #84391
Thanks dasfaker for the info. Indeed it seems that the market is too small and there are very few people who are selling panels.
Does anybody know what would cost a signed license? Why not ask people who are selling panels to “donate for a good cause” 😉June 28, 2018 at 3:33 pm #84392
The problem is that I think you can no longer get a signed license relating to VST2, only for VST3, so Ctrlr should migrate to VST3 or remove VST functionality.
I also don’t think it’s a problem of selling panels, but distributing the VST SDK. Steinberg wants to terminate VST2.
I would really like to know the consequences for panel developers (maybe a .panel is ok while an exported VST instance is not).June 28, 2018 at 4:22 pm #84393
To nuke vst2 would be quite mad, but then – it wouldn’t astonish me from Steinberg.
I guess this is true – standalone Ctrlr versions don’t use any vst code therefore the sould be allowed as long as Roli allows copying and selling the Juce libraries.
It’s a shame. I think vst plugins are very useful. You can save the state of the panel per-DAW-project. So you can save a patch in the DAW-Track where it belongs. You don’t have to write down somewhere which patch you have used for a given DAW project.June 28, 2018 at 5:39 pm #84394
fffffff… is this for real 🙁
so would this mean that synthedit plugins in vst2.4 would
not longer be able to be distributed?
frankly, VST3 sounds … pretty much flawed. it can’t have
presets, and i forget what else from discussions.June 28, 2018 at 5:53 pm #84395
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This is the trouble with copyright law, in addition to protecting intellectual rights ownership as intended it can also be used to leverage marketing strategies. Its a shame when someone like Roman who has created a non-profit and very useful utility for musicians, putting many, many hours of his own time for no personal monetary gain is shut down in this way.
Bravo Steinberg… and thanks a bunch.
Here is some noise I organised into an acceptable format:
https://soundcloud.com/lfo2vco/a-dark-crystalJune 29, 2018 at 8:40 am #84396
I hope I can clear few things about this situation.
Steinberg came with the VST2 format in 1999, in 2008 they have introduced VST3 and already then they said that VST2 will be ditched in a near future. Ten years later developers are still developing mainly for VST2.4 and the VST3 standard has hard time establishing on the market (for various reasons). During the last 2017 Juce DevCon the head of developement at Steinberg Yvan Grabit already explained that VST2.4 will is longer supported and that the whole manpower goes into VST3 dev anyways since years already.
Few weeks ago the VST3.6.10 came out and they also announced that VST2.4 licenses will no longer be granted after October 1st 2018. This simply means that if you are a developer that still want to develop/sell/distribute plugins using the VST2.4 technology you can do this until 01.10.19 without any extra paperwork IF you need/want to do this after the 01.10.18 though, you need to apply for a VST2 license BEFORE 01.10.18 so once this date comes you are still allowed to use the VST2.4 in your products (for VST3 there is another separate license to obtain).
As for the VST2SDK the license always said: “This Software Development Kit may not be distributed in parts or its entirety without prior written agreement by Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH”. They just never cared too much for all the Github repos that distributed the SDK in full or partially. Now they care thou because they want the VST2 development to finally stop and they want to push the VST3 on the market. I think we all understand this move. They have invested a lot time and money to develop the VST3 and it is clear to me that they will push to use it.
It is worth to mention that we are talking about the VST2SDK here (the only reason Ctrlr Git is down) and about the possible development of VST2 plugins.
Steinberg never said that the DAWs will stop the VST2 compatibility and that all the zillions VST2 plugins will suddenly stop working after the 01.10.18, on the contrary, they assured many times on different occasions that VST2.4 will still be there and the developers will migrate to VST3 over time anyway (or some will not) but the VST2 will still work although will not be supported anymore in any way (this is the case already since few long years).
So, I hope that short explanation will help some of you. If you develop panels with VST2.4 fill out the paperwork, wait for the written approval from SB and keep developing until the sun freezes.
I think Atom should do this too if he is planning to develop Ctrlr and its VST2 connectivity. Including VST3 might be also a good thing but as we all know this is another can of worms so he might not be so quick to jump on that wagon.
Cheers people and have a nice day!June 29, 2018 at 11:15 am #84397
Could you or someone else provide a link to the license agreement that has to be signed? Because it’s no longer available in Steinberg site.June 29, 2018 at 12:50 pm #84398
sure, no problem
you need to download the SDK and in the VST2 folder there is the PDF to fill and send back to SB.
Cheers!June 29, 2018 at 12:53 pm #84399
… or directly from the ftp:
https://download.steinberg.net/sdk_downloads/vstsdk3610_11_06_2018_build_37.zipJune 29, 2018 at 1:36 pm #84400
Hmm, could it really be that simple? I mean, Roman would fill out the form and send it to Steinberg, Steinberg says “ok” and then Ctrlr-Github would be online again?
As a panel developer you don’t distribute the vst sdk therefore it shouldn’t be necessary to ask Steinberg for permission. To me another question is: what happens when you sell panels? You will sell the free Ctrlr framework, the Juce libraries which are not allowed to sell unless you buy it, and proprietary Steinberg vst code. In other words, you make money with the work done by other people / companies. I would be surprised if this would be legal.June 29, 2018 at 1:44 pm #84401
you can sell plugins made with synthedit. must be because Jeff
has had a licence – or maybe that will change now. though
SE is migrating to be fully VST3.
can’t really imagine steinberg would be negative about Ctrlr,
a small community, and mainly not for profit.
pretty brutal just pulling all those githubs in one go.
reckon they got a notice? must have.
a lot of stuff in that repository was Lua JUCE stuff,
really useful. reckon it will probably be back up in some
form – but do they have to pay to use SDK2 ?June 29, 2018 at 2:32 pm #84402
Possemo, please read my first post in this thread, I think all is there. Please don’t mix the terminology, VST SDK is something different then plugins/panels using VST2 format.
Cheers!June 29, 2018 at 7:53 pm #84403
Yes I know that vst sdk is a different thing, it’s a software developement kit, that’s why I wrote that it shouldn’t be necessary to ask steinberg when you make panel plugins. Well then maybe it is allowed to sell panels and proprietary code from steinberg. This was another question. Ctrlr is special in this regard as Ctrlr itself is free, but not all panels made with it are. I would call it semi commercial. After all I don’t care too much about that, it’s just that I would like to see the ctrlr github repository back online again. I am still hoping that some C++ developer would take over the project as Roman doesn’t seem to have spare time left anymore.June 29, 2018 at 9:37 pm #84404
Repository was very usefull to search all that hidden stuff like lua implementation of JUCE methods. I hope it will be back soon. I can upload my old fork of CTRLR repository without VST SDK stuff.
I’ve send them mail kindly asking to unblock this repository.
June 29, 2018 at 10:51 pm #84406
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by daimondamps.
s*** that’s when you wish you’d printed it off to pdf
with pdf creator… (maybe i did? … nah.)June 29, 2018 at 10:57 pm #84407
Response: Hi Damian,
Thanks for taking the time to write in. For privacy and security reasons, I’m afraid we’re not able to discuss the repository with anyone other than the repository owner.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
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