Accurate automation: Ctrlr sends messages back to the host?

[minimalist]

This problem I already experienced in Ctrlr v4. But because v4 was too unstable for me – I didn’t use it so much, and forgot about this behavior.
It seems to me that: If Ctrlr is automated it’s sending the received messages back to the host – this confuses the automation with the result that the automation isn’t accurate anymore. Maybe I’m wrong about this "sending back" problem, but there is happening some strange issues which doesn’t appear with all other plugins I’ve tested. Let me try to give an example with Maschine as the host (that pretty tool again ” title=”Wink” /> )

Maschine handles automations like this: Each parameter has a basic value (normal knob in Maschine GUI), from this basic value the recorded automation works in percent values (the outer circle of the "normal" basic knob)… That means if the value of the basic value knob is e.g. "50" and the recorded automation works from -10% to +10% – the synth is receiving values between: 45 and 55. With all other plugins I’ve tested the automation affects just the outer "percent automation circle" in Maschine – as it should. BUT when Ctrlr is automated the automation affects the outer "automation circle" AND the inner basic knob aswell (but this shouldn’t be the case). The result is: Two automations are sent to the synth – The wanted "percent automation", and the unwanted automation of the basic knob. This confuses the synth – and no accurate automation is possible! Don’t know where the difference is between other plugins and Ctrlr – maybe they don’t send their parameters back to the host (some kind of "MIDI feedback")?

Please try in Maschine: open Ctrlr plugin, playback Maschine & click/move the outer "automation circle" to do an automation. You’ll recognise that also the basic knob will be affected by Ctrlr. Is there a possibility to change that automation-destroying behaviour?

[Ellah]

see it on my maschine too. before thinked i do automation wrong? but other plug in work perfect.

[minimalist]

Maybe my post was too long (or not clearly enough?), but this issue/bug is really(!) a serious problem – at least for us Maschine users (in Ableton it works, because the automation concept is different).
The absolutely main reason for me to use Ctrlr is the possibility to automate my hardware. But because of this behaviour automations get destroyed (the range of the automation is moving all the time, because of the automated basic knob) and that’s why: [i:2wjqis2z]if[/i:2wjqis2z] Ctrlr would stay like this – it [i:2wjqis2z]could[/i:2wjqis2z] become useless for me (hate to say this, but it’s true).

Is there a chance to fix that? If you need closer informations (or a short video), please tell. A short answer would be nice.

[atom]

i was looking at this and i did a small fix in the latest release (the automation range was wrong), but aprart from that i can’t see a problem i tried this is Maschine/Reaper/Live on the mac and it seems to act the way it should.

If it’s not then i might need a bit more explaining since i never used Maschine. I see the outer circle and the inner circle movement on the modulator knob but i have no idea what’s that for.

[minimalist]

The latest release didn’t fix this problem, sorry. I try to explain the inner/outer circle better.

The inner knob: This basic/main knob has 2 functions
a) for normal realtime parameter tweaking
b) it determines the starting point of the automation, but it should NEVER be affected by the automation. If this knob is e.g. set to value 50, the automation is related (in percent) to value 50. When the automation has a range from 0% to +100%, the synth is receiving values between 50 and 127. When the range of the automation is from -100% to 0%, the synth is receiving values between 0 and 50. That means that this knob determines the initial point from where the automation starts.

The outer circle (outside the basic knob): This circle just has 1 function
a) this is for recording automations (if you don’t have the Maschine hardware). Just click with the mouse on this outer circle and move this parameter (while Maschine is in playback). If you move this parameter you can see in the GUI that it works in percent. Left is -100%, right is +100%.

Now, when you automate Ctrlr (by moving the outer circle) the basic knob receives messages, too. This shouldn’t happen, because the initial/starting point of the automation is moving all the time (sometimes more, sometimes less)! That means that the synth never receives the wanted automated values (the range is correct, but because the initial point is moving all the time – the range is moving, too).

Did this explanation was more helpful? It’s not easy for me to explain. But at the moment it seems to me that Ctrlr’s components are sending back their automated values – this [i:5zey1bag]could[/i:5zey1bag] be the reason why the basic knob is affected. As I wrote all other plugins I’ve tested behave behave "normal" – just the outer circle is affected by the automation.

[atom]

is there a Windows demo of Maschine with VST enabled, i have Maschine on windows but it does not support plugins.

[minimalist]

pm sent. ” title=”Wink” />

[atom]

try it now, maybe i fixed it but then again maybe i broke it even more ” title=”Smile” /> let me know

[minimalist]

Truly fixed! Nice work – for some days I thought that maybe it could be possible that there isn’t a chance to change this. ” title=”Smile” /> Thanks!

[minimalist]

Sorry to say this but as you supposed this fix really affects a few new issues.

a) When controlling Ctrlr via the Virus C the parameter values get confused. E.g. if I turn a knob on the Virus it jumps always back to value "0". That means if I like to increase the startvalue 50… immediately the parameter/value (visible in Ctrlr GUI and Virus display) are jumping from 50 to 0… then from 53 to 0… then from 55 to 0… and so on – it’s not possible to increase a value step by step (50, 51, 52, 53…). With the Tetra this doesn’t happen (there is still this "parameters get stucked when turning a knob a bit faster" feedback problem). When I control via Ctrlr the Virus everything works as normal/before.

b) sometimes it seems that the MIDI connection breaks (no messages are received anymore – have to restart Ctrlr), but this happens very very rarely so it’s hard to reproduce.

Would be nice if this could be fixable, cause I love to touch my synths directly (not with mouse/controller). ” title=”Smile” />

[atom]

i was almost certain that i’ll break something cause this is very low level and i have no time to test at the moment (too much work@work) but i’ll try to test a full setup today or tomorrow (midi, vst, gui) and post a build then.

the midi input bug…. this might be a lot of things really.

[minimalist]

Nice that you’ll look into that issue!

[Author]

Posts