basic questions on slider

[spinacem]

hi!

i am trying to make a simple slider to control a cc value of my external synth. I have two simple questions:

1) how i can change the cc number on the slider edit panel? it seems it is lock on 1.000000 and i can’t change it to a new number. For now i was able to control only cc 1.

2) How i can automate the slider on ableton 8? I have click configure on the vst Ctlr Ableton panel, and then click on the slider to add it to the automations parameters of the track, but nothing happens.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[spinacem]

I’ve solved the 2).
For the 1) i ve found a workaround: if i copy a number from a text file i can paste it on ctrlr parameter. I don’t know why i can’t type it directly…i am missing something?

Just last question: if i send a cc automation from ctrlr, it will send 3 bit midi, 7 bit midi or 14 bit midi resolution? There is an option to check and control the midi resolution?

thanks in advance!!

[atom]

CC are always 7bits. Anything smaller will be sent automaticly if the sent value fits in 3 bits, 14bit messages are always multi messages (NRPN, RPN, CC pairs etc.) or SysEx messages (only the pitch bend is 14bits but it’s also multi message)

[spinacem]

thanks for reply!

Ok, i was asking because on my actually firmware of moog little phatty it accepts to receive and sends 14bit data for cc like cutoff, resonance,pitchbend etc, so the steps are 0-4095 instead of 0-127, giving smoother response.

[atom]

Yeah the little phatty does that by doing CC pairs, you can check the panel id Device Panels, there is a panel for the Little phatty, you can use that as an example.

[spinacem]

wow i didn’t see it! Thank you very much!!!

[spinacem]

I’ve tried the panel it works very good, except when i switch the cutoff mode button to ’14bit mode’. It seems that the cutoff button doesn’t send values any more except at value 0 (wich send 0). Maybe could you Atom give me any suggestion on how can i get this thing to work?
Anyway on ‘7bit mode’ on it works very good ” title=”Very Happy” />

[spinacem]

Well, i was watching the panel for the moog voyager (downloaded from DEVICE PANELS). I see that on cutoff slider (and many others) there are these settings:

Midi message type: multi
midi channel: 1
midi controller number: 1
midi controller value: 1

Multi message list: CC, ByteValue, MSB7bitValue, 19, -1, F0 00 F7
CC, ByteValue, LSB7bitValue, 51, -1, F0 00 F7

I would ask some informations about the last 2 lines, i didn’t understand them very much

thanks in advance!

[atom]

When you look at the Multi Message List property, you’ll notice some buttons there add, set from template, or delete. The add button will bring a dialog that might explain a bit more info here. The templates are for ready made NRPN/RPN messages (you can also use those, just delete 2 from the 4 messages on the list)

[spinacem]

i understand that the number (’19’) after the MSB7bitValue is the midi cc number, but what is it the number ’51’ after the LSB7bitValue? It is also a midi cc number?

[atom]

Yes, to transmit a 14bit value using CCs you need to send them in pairs, this is a pair of two CCs, each with a different number sending 7bits of a 14bit number.

If your not too familiar with all that bits and bytes, i recommend some reading, this is pure math: http://www.blitter.com/~russtopia/MIDI/ … ec/rpn.htm

[spinacem]

thanks for reply! But the slider will send the 14 bit message to one CC parameter or two? In this case i am sending a 7 bit message to cc19 and a 7bit message to cc 51, or i am sending a 14bit to cc 19?
Sry i am little bit retarded , just want to uderstand well this thing of cc pairs^^

[atom]

Yeah you need to understand what those bits are.

To make it short, a single CC message can send values 0-127 (exactly 7 bits of data)

That range is very small, some synths want a higher range, usualy 14bits of range, 14bits can hold a range of 0-16384, that’s a lot. BUT you can’t transmit a number that large in a single CC, since you only have 7bits available in a single CC. So you need to split the 14bit number into two parts, each consisting of 7bits. The higher part is called MSB the lower is called LSB (most significant, least significant, or in some cases COARSE and FINE), you take those two parts and transmit each of them in a seperate CC message. The receiving device knows that when it receives two CC after each other it should take the value of each of them and treat them both as a single message.

For example (this is where it gets weird):
we want to send the value 9870 to the synth, first we need to translate it into bits
[code:1qogc655]
9870 -> 10011010001110
[/code:1qogc655]
now we split those 0s and 1s into two
[code:1qogc655]
10011010001110 -> 1001101 [split] 0001110
LSB = 0001110 [hex=00e,dec=14]
MSB = 1001101 [hex=04d,dec=77]
[/code:1qogc655]

Now we have two numbers that represent one big number, we need to take those two smaller ones (remember since they’re 7bits they will never be larger then 127 witch is exactly what we need) and send the to the synth. In your case we’ll use two CC messages numbered 19 and 51 (that’s what the MOOG manual says) and send them with the values set to our split numbers. The synth will take them, join them and set the value of the parameter to the big number we want.

I recommend using the MIDI Calculator in Ctrlr (the main toolbar) to experiment with all those bits and bytes.

[spinacem]

wow it makes perfect sense! Thank you very much!
I didn’t understand that it makes a join at the end to control only the first cc number. Where did you find the specifications for the cc pairs (19-51, 21-53, etc..)? There is nothing about this on my moog manuals and addendum o_O?

[atom]

http://moogmusic.com/sites/default/file … l_v2_2.pdf
page 55 column 3

[spinacem]

thanks! It seems they give pairs cc informations only about Cutoff and ModulationWheel, not informations about other parameters (14bit are from 1 to 31 cc). I will send an email to ask moog about that^^
Thank you very much for all your help!

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