SysEcx Help (Roland FA 06, SN-S Edit)

Home Forums General Programming SysEcx Help (Roland FA 06, SN-S Edit)

Tagged: ,

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #120297
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    I was going to try my hand at making a basic Supernatural Synth Editor (at least for Partial 1) using Ctrlr.

    I don’t know how Ctrlr works yett really but I’ve already gotten a Knob to control volume with CC7.

    So I’ve been using a Controller Keyboard (Roland A 800 Pro) that can take SysEx messages to send.

    It’s working too. I can see the messages coming in to Ctrlr in the Input Monitor and with Thru engaged it’s passing them on to the Roland and controlling the parameter as expected.

    Now I can use Ctrlr to see what the message for Filter Cutoff for Partial 1 by turning the knob on the A 800 and it’s:

    f0 41 10 00 00 77 12 19 01 20 0c 7f 3b f7

    Now here’s the thing – as I turn the knob, the 7f and 3b change.

    Here’s the message when it’s on 0:

    f0 41 10 00 00 77 12 19 01 20 0c 00 3a f7

    and here it is on 127:

    f0 41 10 00 00 77 12 19 01 20 0c 7f 3b f7

    At least I think those were the two extremes.

    Now, to compare this with the Roland A 800 Pro Software:

    F0 41 10 00 00 77 12 SS 19 01 20 0C DT S1 F7

    I believe the SS and S1 are there to do check sum which the software for the A 800 pro does automatically.

    The DT is data type, which is set to DTO 7 bit and then I can fill in the min/max values which are 0-127 (which I can enter in the software).

    Since Ctrlr doesn’t seem to do this, I’m at a lost at how to get the values to go from 1 – 127 when I move the knob.

    Now, it clearly works, because if I put a value in, and move the knob in the Roland to set it to a random value, then move the one in Ctrlr, it’ll set it to 0 or 127 depending on which of the above values I put in. So I know it’s getting the message.

    But it won’t scroll between them.

    I was so excited to get the CC messages to work but the SysEx don’t seem to be able to scroll from 0-127 like I need them to.

    Here’s the manual link for the roland: – page 29, RH column under SN-S Partial, Filter Cutoff:

    https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/FA-06_07_08_MIDI_Imple_eng01_W.pdf

    TIA in advance if you can help me.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #120300
    Tedjuh
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 95
    • Total: 103
    • ★★

    Could you try the next steps?

    — In Ctrlr, create a knob or fader for the filter cutoff.
    — Fill in name etc, min max value, colors.. up to you.

    — Then in the “MIDI” Pane:
    — Set midiMessageType to: Sysex
    — In the midiMessageSysexFormula fill in:
    F0 41 10 00 00 77 12 19 01 20 0c xx z5 F7

    The xx is the value from 00-127 (which you setup under component) and the z5 handles the CheckSum. It is done internally for Ctrlr and is, I believe, just for Roland Synths.

    The SS is, I think, the “start” of the CheckSum and S1 the end of the Checksum. The Hex in between needs to be counted for the Checksum. Probably to calculate the sysex in the A800 software. (Beats me why they would do it this way, but hey, “Roland”.) The synthesizer just needs the Sysex that you see in the Ctrlr input monitor to sync with Ctrlr and vice versa.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Tedjuh. Reason: Typo in the Sysex
    #120302
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    It WORKED!

    You had one too many pairs of zeros at the beginning but once I deleted those it worked fine!

    Thanks!!!

    #120304
    Tedjuh
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 95
    • Total: 103
    • ★★

    Glad to hear. I edited the mistake so now it shows the right Sysex. But luckily you found out yourself.

    If you reach page 30, there is another fun Roland Sysex implementation regarding the “Wave number” or offset address 00 35 from the SuperNATURAL Synth Tone Partial. (Seriously, who comes up with those names?) Let me know if you need help with that one.

    #120305
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    Thanks. I actually got quite a bit done.

    I guess before I get too far, once I get this done, can I turn it into an AU Component (or VST) or something like that that’ll run as a Standalone or within a DAW like Logic or Reaper?

    Logic’s way of picking patches is kind of funky (the MIDI Environment) and it would be cool if it were a plug in to be able to pick patches as well.

    If not, I guess end users would have to use Ctrlr program on their own computer and load this up?

    Yeah – one of things for the Supernatural Synths is a “common” settings and Partial Select things and they’re under a different category (different offset). So I may need help with that.

    I was able to get those to work on my Roland but I can’t find the darn book I made with all the offsets organized! But I do have SysEx message for them still in the A-Pro app so I can feed them into Ctrlr and probably get darn close – only if the checksum thing is different or something.

    Thanks again!

    #120307
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    Hi Tedjuh,

    I got a lot done tonight and it’s all working save for a few things I just haven’t put in yet.

    I actually just opened the AU in Logic and realized it’s basically the same thing, so I could edit in the – I did command E and I had already turned off my synth but it looked like it all ran OK.

    Very neat.

    Screenshot included.

    The only things I couldn’t get to work were the Partial Select – but I think this is because all those SysEx messages are for Partial 1 only. There’s a different number in the Partial 2 and 3 messages I think. So I can manually select the Partial I want to edit, but the controls only affect Partial 1.

    I think I’d have to build a duplicate tab and change all the numbers. I’m sure there’s an easier way but I’m not ready for that yet.

    There’s also the Supernatural Synth Misc. category that I haven’t tried as the offset is different but it’s not something I think you’d really need anyway.

    There are a few SysEx messages in the manual that are only on the “Pro Edit” pages, but I included most of those and they all work.

    The only thing I didn’t see was there’s an option to set the Portamento to Chromatic instead of gliss, but I’m thinking I might be able to record that message into the internal Sequencer and then see what the numbers are…

    Now all I have to do is figure out how to make it into an actual AU Component someone else could download and install and try.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #120315
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    Here’s another update of what I’ve accomplished.

    I have all of the parameters of the SN-S Partial block mapped except for Wave Gain, Wave Number (and that’s the TRICKY one!), HPF Cutofff, and Modulation LFO Control.

    All those except Wave Number are easy, I just haven’t gotten to them yet.

    I also found out to edit Partial 2, I just need to change 1 number before the number I’ve been changing to do all this (from 20 to 21 IIRC). I tried it on one control and it worked perfectly.

    But before I go making a copy and another panel just like this I’m hoping there’s a “macro” way to have everything I’ve done be able to just change that one number in the SysEx string to make it work.

    Otherwise I’ll be making a duplicate panel – which might not be bad so one can see the changes they’ve made on separate pages.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #120331
    Tedjuh
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 95
    • Total: 103
    • ★★

    The Portamento can be switch on and off. The Portamento has modes: “Normal” and “Legato”. Has a Rate and Time setting and last but not least, a note from which the portamento should start before it ends up at the note that is being played. See page 20, top left section. Maybe you need to fiddle with those settings to get what you want.

    You are right. The different partials just need a different “offset”. So it’s easy to assign all the modulators for another partial when you have one partial done. But That’s just achieved by copy and paste. There’s no macro way of handling it, unfortunately.

    Duplicate panels. Might work. But isn’t easier for the end-user to put it all in one panel?

    For the AU and Logic or reaper questions, can’t help you with that. Windows user here. There’s a mac in the house here somewhere but it’s occupied by my Gf.

    #120334
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    >You are right. The different partials just need a different “offset”. So it’s easy to assign all the modulators for another partial when you have one partial done. But That’s just achieved by copy and paste. There’s no macro way of handling it, unfortunately.

    The more I thought about it, the more I think I need a separate “page” or “panel” for each Partial anyway, so I’m just going to go through the modulator list and change all those 20s to 21s and 22s manually. Shouldn’t take to long once I get Partial 1 done and organized like I want it.

    >Duplicate panels. Might work. But isn’t easier for the end-user to put it all in one panel?

    One thing I don’t understand is the size…I guess the end user could load up a Partial 1, 2, and 3 panel and just have them all up on screen to switch between.

    It seems like it would be super huge and you’d have to scroll around a lot on screen to get to everything you want, so a huge panel you can’t see all of seems kind of bad…but if that’s the only way I can do it…I guess I could make one, zoom way out, copy and paste the others, and then an end user can just zoom what they need to.

    Or I could use the Global value method but I’d have to go in and edit all those 20s to be K1 or something – doesn’t seem to be the best way to do it.

    For the AU and Logic or reaper questions, can’t help you with that. Windows user here. There’s a mac in the house here somewhere but it’s occupied by my Gf.

    Have you made a VST for it? Or is it always basically just opening up the program within your DAW and running it like the Standalone? I was thinking maybe there was a way to turn it into a VST or other plug in type that would be the only thing the end user needed – and they wouldn’t have to do all the editing or loading of panels, etc…

    I learned how do to Groups and add a little color (do you know where there’s a chart with the color codes?) so I think I’m going to do a little more visual design tonight – the values stand out better on the page with the grey background.

    Thanks again!

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by llatham.
    #120336
    dnaldoog
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 477
    • Total: 481
    • ★★

    Hi llatham,

    For instructions on how to export as standalone or AU in macOS see here!
    ctrlr.org/roland-jd990-super-editor/

    Regards,

    #120339
    llatham
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 15
    • Total: 21

    Hi llatham,

    For instructions on how to export as standalone or AU in macOS see here!
    ctrlr.org/roland-jd990-super-editor/

    Regards,

    It actually seems to have worked! Except that the size displayed is only the upper left corner and there’s no way to scroll around or resize that I can see. I’ll have to figure that out.

    Here is an update of the panel. I’ve gotten everything in the SN-S Partial 1 to work and am generally happy with the layout, though at the last minute I added Reverb and Chorus send and moved the MFX switch, bu there are chorus, reverb, and mfx types I could add in with rotary knobs (or inc/dec buttons) to go through options.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
There is currently 0 users and 29 guests online
No users are currently active
Forum Statistics
Threads: 2,452, Posts: 17,259, Members: 47,979
Most users ever online was 12 on January 22, 2019 3:47 pm
Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!