Search Results for 'Nrpn'

[dnaldoog]

Yes I think so and then in Midi Controller number enter the NRPN number and in MIDI message type select multi.

Interested to see if that works!

Also let me know if you want to do it all in lua ?

[dnaldoog]

Have you tried adding NULL bytes messages to the end of the NRPN message?

That might fix it.

For example add:

CC,ByteValue,MSB7bitValue,101,16384
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,100,127

to the multi message list in Ctrlr: The default template message looks like this when you click on the icon that looks like a sheet of paper with an arrow:

CC,ByteValue,MSB7bitValue,99,-2
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,98,-2
CC,ByteValue,MSB7bitValue,6,-1
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,38,-1

[smees]

Hello,
First, I love ctrlr panels it works so good than I decided to try doing one for my SCI prophet VS

I know nothing at programming and about sysex.

I have read on this forum and checked how panels are done and I though I figured enough to make it.

So now it works using NRPN 7 bit messages. It adress the parameter and modulate it. But the problem is when I change to another parameter it change the value of the previous parameter (as if it takes time to change parameter and it already send some value to the one I am in before changing)

For example I am on the cutoff and everything work then I modulate the resonance and it is working but it change the cutoff… Then if I stay on resonance everything is fine.

My question is : Is it possible to adress a parameter first without sending values, waiting a bit and then start modulating the new parameter ?

[shooking]

Like Atom said use something like MidiOx to observe the patterns. Any midi that claims to be larger than 7 bit has to be made from two CCs, a RPN or a NRPN for current midi standard.

If you find a commercial platform with a demo mode you could play that into MidiOx and see what that panel does.

Once you checked up on that and any spec available then plan your layout and check out similar panels for hints on how to achieve what you want.

[goodweather]

Can you be a bit more precise?
This should be straightforward as all synths have On/Off switches…

– what are you sending as message to “On”? Some CC, NRPN, sysex?
– what are you sending to “Off”?

Build an image with 2 frames (one picture for On then one for Off).
Use a uiImageButton modulator.
Value 0 will display first image, value 1 will display the second image

Start your device
Set your Midi connection with the Midi menu
Open Midi monitor window and enable Input and output monitoring
Save, close and re-open your panel
Switch the button on your device then check the midi monitor
Should display the correct messages with values 0 and 1
Maybe you have 0 but then another value which is preventing the display of the second image

[dnaldoog]

Actually, I can’t really explain it João. I would have copied it off another panel or from the forum somewhere,

To use CC#6 as a 7bit number for the Yamaha I used (or copied)
CC,Direct,Direct,6,-1

but you can create a template message (there’s one there for KORG NRPN) that is interesting.

CC,ByteValue,MSB7bitValue,99,-2:
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,98,-2:
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,6,-1

It looks like Korg uses CC#6 for LSB, but it’s usually used for MSB as I understand it.

Just click on the ‘document with arrow’ logo to get started creating messages in the window ‘Multi Message List’.

A standard RPN message template

CC,ByteValue,MSB7bitValue,101,-2:
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,100,-2:
CC,ByteValue,MSB7bitValue,6,-1:
CC,ByteValue,LSB7bitValue,38,-1

You can see the RPN above is really four messages:
The MSB CC 6 will send 1 for a value of 128 and 0 for a value of 127
The LSB CC 38 will send 0 for a value of 128 and 7F for a value of 127

The MIDI controller number is sent with the RPN LSB and then the actual value is sent using CC #6 and/or #38 for some parameters like pitch bend. Sometimes #38 is omitted.

The last two messages are optional I believe and close off the message, setting it to NULL otherwise problems can arise. In fact I tried using NRPN for the Yamaha PLG150AN panel I wrote, but it did weird things to the board, so I just used RPN,sysex and CC.

Here is a sample midi message:

[23:05:40:000513]: RAW:[b0 65 00] = 101
[23:05:40:000513]: RAW:[b0 64 02] = 100 / coarse tuning
[23:05:40:000513]: RAW:[b0 06 02] = value
[23:05:40:000513]: RAW:[b0 65 7f] = NULL the message
[23:05:40:000513]: RAW:[b0 64 7f] = NULL the message

so a single NRPN could be up to 6 consecutive midi messages!

[madlesne]

So Goodweather asked me to create a topic for this.

I’ve made a panel for the Nord Drum 2. It was not fully working, so I contacted Midiquest and we did one that will be released soon. Thing is.. Midiquest is not stable enough. It crashes a LOT here. It’s a bit of a nightmare, and gives me anxiety when working in Reaper so I’d rather use something else in the end.

So Maybe it would be cool to finish the CTRLR panel I started.

Now I would need your help to implement the few NRPN that are present. I just know how to do basic 7bit CCs.

The other thing is that my panel actually handles only one channel, where there are six channels total available. SO to control everything you have to load six editors… Not optimal. Midiquest has created several tabs for each channel, and I think it’s very cool to do so.

You’ll find the actual state of dvpmt of the editor attached to this message

Working with Midiquest I’ve been able to test a lot of functions directly on the hardware, it has been primordial to make sure each knob is correctly calibrated (nord implementation is weird for some of them) so if anybody wants to help, please contact me at ( madlesne @ live.fr ) in order to get this new editor fully functionnal (I have all these details archived in my mails exchange with the Midiquest team) !

Eventually I’ll be able to render a UI in 3D (I’m studying 3D) and have cool panel, font, plus knobs with raytraced light.

By advance thank you for your help.

Attachments:

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[madlesne]

Is this editor exists ? I’d like to try it if possible, I can’t make panels with nrpn, I’m not smart enough. Would be insanely ni if someone could post the editor somewhere…

[John Shin]

Ok, thank you for the reply. Now I have 2 questions,

1. you are saying I need to connect MIDI IN of prophet 08 to MIDI OUT of my audio interface (RME UFX) correct?

so,
midi settings on Ctrlr Power 08 editor (standalone app), I set it as follows,

Midi in : UFX port 2
Controller : Nektar GX61 Midi 1
Midi out : UFX port 2

Wala!!

Receive: ALL
Send: NRPN

I went to Bank 1 & Bank 2 and pressed receive and there it went, receiving all its factory patches!
Thank You so much.

Now you can ignore my first question, here is my new first question with sub-questions:
1. what do I do with these..?
a) Midi channels (I see 5 of them and I set it as 1 for all)
b) Plugin check boxes: do I tick BOTH of them or none..?
C) OSC Server settings: do I enable it or no? (it is currently 7770 and protocol default.
d) ROUTING section: which ones do I tick and which ones do I ingore? (currently I ticked “IN Device -> OUT Device & right side of it “change MIDI Channel” ticked)

So now I can see my Power 08 is fully connected.
(playing keys on my controller I hear sound right, knobs moving concurrently both on the app and the hardware)

so what now is the most convenient way to SAVE newly edited patches? (Im sure prophet 08 does not allow you yo save unless overwriting..) and LOAD (recall) up the pathes..(whenever on cubase)?

2. also another question, I AM totally not to judge nor compare it to any other applications, but since I am so new to this,
what are the differences between Ctrlr panels editor AND a) Soundtower prophet 08 editor and SYNTHET (which you need to purchase)?
are functionalities the same?

My main needs:
1. Utilise my hardware synth (prophet 08 desktop) in Cubase so I can use it as VSTi.
2. Saving my custom edited patches without deleting any factory patches.
3. Load the edited patch whenever I need to work on my project without any technical delay.

[Possemo]

So you already installed Ctrlr and loaded the panal into it and connected midi out? Ok, for full functionality you need to connect midi in too (from midi out of prophet). Furthermore you need to set up the prophet correctly. Carl explained it:

The most important is your midi connections : first check your midi connections in ctrlr (midi input and output, sometimes it doesn’t match with naming of devices.. check your computer midi configuration too).

Then click on “Get” button under GLOBAL area of POWER08 panel. if you see “?” in “receive” and “send” boxes, then you have to check your global parameters directly on your synth : –> Global –> + or – to navigate –> and verify that these parameters are correctly setup :

– MParam Send:NRPN
– M Param Rec: All
– MIDI Control : On
– MIDI SysEx: On

Then you can hit “Get” again and you will see the update in “receive” and “send” boxes.

Hope this helps!

Try with standalone first, plugin can be tricky at times.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Possemo.

[Possemo]

you mean a “learn” feature like some apps/controllers do have? No, Ctrlr just stores the incoming midi message into a memoryblock which is acessible very easily by using the Lua script language. I think a learn feature wouldn’t work well with most sysex messages anyway. E.g. many of them have the midi-channel included in some byte, but as it is sysex (system exclusive) it is free for every manufactuer to choose on which byte he places the midi-channel. Moreover, e.g. the 05/RW breaks big 14-bit numbers into two 7-bit bytes for the parameter address. Some of the 05/RW parameters do need big 14-bit vaules as well. It would be impossible to “learn” such composite sysex strings automatically.

AFAIK a learn-feature can just learn standard control change which is very easy to insert by hand into Ctrlr modulators anyway. But nevertheless it would be a nice feature to have. It could even be able to learn RPN and NRPN CC’s which are standardized by midi specs. RPN and NRPN do allow a big amount of controller adresses (14-bit = 2-exponent-14 = 16384) and do have 14-bit resolution for the value. Enough for even the most complex device. It’s a shame that almost none of the manufacturers makes use of these great hi-res CC’s.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Possemo.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Possemo.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Possemo.

[SWJ2000]

Is anyone having trouble recording automation into Ableton 10 with the Oberheim OB6 and Prophet 6 panels? I had them working perfectly on my last Mac Mini running El Capitan but now upgraded to a new Mac Mini and Mojave. Setup is exactly the same on both machines so maybe an issue with Mojave. Can adjust all the parameters from the panel and both and Parameter Xmit and Receive are set to NRPN. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[daimondamps]

Hi , you need to create LUA function and selest it in the main panel recive message method.
Example routine could be like this:

--
-- Called when a panel receives a midi message (does not need to match any modulator mask)
-- @midi   CtrlrMidiMessage object
--

Recivelist = function(midiMessage)

if panel:getRestoreState() == true or panel:getProgramState() == true then
		return
	end

	local messageType = midiMessage:getType()
	

	if (messageType == 5 and midiMessage:getSize()~=2) then

		local s = midiMessage:getSize() -- Size of the midi dump received
		console ("memory block is "..midiMessage:getSize().." bytes, data:")

		local recKPAID = midiMessage:getLuaData():getRange(1,3)
    	        local recFunctionCode = midiMessage:getLuaData():getByte(6)
		local Instance = midiMessage:getLuaData():getByte(7)
		local recNrpnMSB = midiMessage:getLuaData():getByte(8)
		local recNrpnLSB = midiMessage:getLuaData():getByte(9)

		if (recFunctionCode == 0x7e and Instance == 0x00) then
		
			if (recNrpnMSB == 04 and recNrpnLSB ==03) then

				local partialmessage=midiMessage:getData():getRange(10,s-12)

			
				
		
				elseif (recNrpnMSB == 06 and recNrpnLSB ==03) then

				else
			end
		
	    end
	end
end

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by daimondamps.

[spookyzoo]

I’ve been working on a MidiDesigner layout for the Novation X-Station and made good progress. However I am also struggling with the packed parameter NRPNs.

I believe the 2 synths are very closely built midi wise and there is much crossover in their specs. Would be great to hear if you have any breakthrough.

Cheers

[human fly]

this is where i am not 100% about NRPN.
i have a feeling you only need to send the msb/lsb stuff once,
to specify the target, and then the data#6s will go to that.

but i’m not sure. it really is a nightmare protocol.

does the ESQ1 not receive sysex ? i find sysex so much more straightforward,
and it works(!) – although it is not much good in large amounts for realtime.

have you had success changing parameters so far with NRPN ?
i mean, have you sent at least one parameter change successfully ?

i would really like some clarification, personally, on this, from
someone who’s used it a lot.

[john1964]

Apples autocorrect, yes Lua of course
In ctrlr msb and lsb are being sent with each value if you set the control as NRPN and use the predefined message. The esq is happy with all the cc6’s coming in but it hates to process the msb and lsb coming in at high rates

[human fly]

are you talking about Lua?

the ESQ1 should be able to receive MIDI CC messages correctly, so it shouldn’t have
a problem receiving Data/CC#6.

NRPN just sets up a target parameter, and then you send data to that. the assigned
controller will continue sending midiCC#6 messages to that target until you specify
another one – or use a Null message to deactivate it.

at least that’s how i understand it. (i never use NRPN …)
should be possible with Lua – and you can set up timers if you need to make something wait.

[john1964]

Hi, I have an ensoniq esq1 as well and have been looking into this too and searched the forum on NRPN messages. Now here is what I have found.
The esq can’t handle big data streams very well with NRPN. It will crash immediately when you turn a knob in ctrlr. In the past several editor manufacturers had different ways to handle this. I have checked this with midiquest and it turns out they are using the data increment buttons to get around this problem. However, this makes the editor very slow. One little movement on fader or button will generate a long list of midi messages, which are probably timed as well so the esq doesn’t crash.
Now I,ve also checked out the iPad version of this editor in trail mode, and this is working very smooth ( without the flickering vid display on the esq) so I analyzed the messages from this app. It turns out that they only send out the lsb and msb once and then a continuous string of cc6 messages. This works very fast and smoothly. However currently we can’t do this without using Luna in ctrlr and the people behind Luna seem to be against using such a method because it’s not the right way to do it. But it’s the only way to handle old synths from the time that a z80 processor was called a personal computer . I would love to be able to have the option to use this method optionally in ctrlr, and not have to deal with workarounds like the sq80 method.

[Possemo]

you can see the message a given slider is sending in the midi-properties (see screenshot). In this example it sends a midi-cc with number 21. But you can send a lot of other messages such as nrpn-cc’s or sysex.

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[Possemo]

yes the MKS-70 uses NRPN MIDI-CC’s for most parameter (tone parameters) but it needs sysex for the patch parameters and also the librarian is using nothing but sysex. So you will miss a lot of functionality when you go the no-sysex way.

Why is it not acceptable for you to dedicate a MIDI port for Ctrlr and the MKS-70?